Last week I bought a Travelcard and a little camera and went to North
Woolwich.

The line from Canning Town to North Woolwich feels "forgotten",
especially around Silvertown, where the sense of decay is strenghened
by the deep pools of water and broken rails where the second track used
to be.

Silvertown itself lies in the shadow of the Tate & Lyle sugar factory,
itself a bit run down, and other warehouses and delapidated buildings
hold each other up beside the single track. A few hundred metres away
are the works taking place to extend the DLR to London City Airport.

North Woolwich itself is a pleasant enough little station, with a
lovely building which is now a small railway musuem.

But the overall feeling is one of other-worldliness - totally unlike
any other line in London, this line seems to be just passing the time
to closure.

I can't seem to find out what will happen to this section of track when
the DLR opens? I assume it will be closed as you can see the new DLR
section from the train.

In message . com,
ONscotland writes

I can't seem to find out what will happen to this section of track when
the DLR opens? I assume it will be closed as you can see the new DLR
section from the train.

The North London Line will either terminate at Stratford or be projected
up the Lea Valley line.

Crossrail plans to use the Custom House / Silvertown section (before
plunging under the Thames).

--
Paul Terry

On 21 May 2005 03:48:36 -0700, "ONscotland"
wrote:

Last week I bought a Travelcard and a little camera and went to North
Woolwich.

The line from Canning Town to North Woolwich feels "forgotten",
especially around Silvertown, where the sense of decay is strenghened
by the deep pools of water and broken rails where the second track used
to be.

Silvertown itself lies in the shadow of the Tate & Lyle sugar factory,
itself a bit run down, and other warehouses and delapidated buildings
hold each other up beside the single track. A few hundred metres away
are the works taking place to extend the DLR to London City Airport.

North Woolwich itself is a pleasant enough little station, with a
lovely building which is now a small railway musuem.

But the overall feeling is one of other-worldliness - totally unlike
any other line in London, this line seems to be just passing the time
to closure.

I did exactly the same trip in 1996 purely out of curiosity, and felt
exactly the same way!

Charlie#
--
Remove NO-SPOO-PLEASE from my email address to reply
Please send no unsolicited email or foodstuffs

I can't seem to find out what will happen to this section of track when
the DLR opens? I assume it will be closed as you can see the new DLR
section from the train.

The North London Line will either terminate at Stratford or be projected
up the Lea Valley line.

Crossrail plans to use the Custom House / Silvertown section (before
plunging under the Thames).

And I believe the Canning Town - Stratford section will be taken over
by the DLR extension to Stratford International.

"ONscotland" wrote in message
ups.com...
Last week I bought a Travelcard and a little camera and went to North
Woolwich.

The line from Canning Town to North Woolwich feels "forgotten",
especially around Silvertown, where the sense of decay is strenghened
by the deep pools of water and broken rails where the second track used
to be.

Silvertown itself lies in the shadow of the Tate & Lyle sugar factory,
itself a bit run down, and other warehouses and delapidated buildings
hold each other up beside the single track. A few hundred metres away
are the works taking place to extend the DLR to London City Airport.

North Woolwich itself is a pleasant enough little station, with a
lovely building which is now a small railway musuem.

But the overall feeling is one of other-worldliness - totally unlike
any other line in London, this line seems to be just passing the time
to closure.

I can't seem to find out what will happen to this section of track when
the DLR opens? I assume it will be closed as you can see the new DLR
section from the train.


Well it's almost certain that that the DLR will take over the line from
Canning Town to Stratford.
The rest of the line from Canning Town to North Woolwich is likely to be
closed.
With the alternatively being the new DLR extension from Canning Town to King
George which runs quite close to the exisiting NLL for much of the way.
I think they (as in successive governments and local authorities) have been
quietly waiting to close down this section of the NLL.
It serves of no strategic importance anymore, there are alternatives (like
the DLR extension) and the number of people using it right now are scant.

However, the whole area is ripe for regeneration. Some of which is already
past planning stage. Just take a trip down there and you'll
see vast areas of riverside land ripe for new homes and offices/warehouses.
It already started with furlong Homes starting their development.
The DLR extension itself will also breathe some life into the area. The area
itself is well connected. Woolwich Ferry over to the south of London,
North and South Circular nearby, M25 and M11 just minutes away. City Airport
is so close. you are minutes from Canary Wharf and not far from The City.

All in all a lot of positives. So if I were the planners, I would keep the
NLL going so when the regeneration does come around they
don't need to replan things and build "new" railways and trams when they
already have a system in place.

but of course it doens't work like that ;-)
A.

On Sat, 21 May 2005, londoncityslicker wrote:

"ONscotland" wrote in message
ups.com...

Last week I bought a Travelcard and a little camera and went to North
Woolwich.

I've been down there by bike twice in the last month. It hardly feels like
London at all.

I can't seem to find out what will happen to this section of track when
the DLR opens? I assume it will be closed as you can see the new DLR
section from the train.

Well it's almost certain that that the DLR will take over the line from
Canning Town to Stratford.

Question: what's going to happen to the existing Stratford branch when
the new one opens?

The rest of the line from Canning Town to North Woolwich is likely to be
closed.

And then to become part of Crossrail.

Also, paging Dave Arquati: TfL have changed their site layout a bit, so
your link to the map of proposed stations on the new Stratford DLR line is
broken; it's now he

http://developments.dlr.co.uk/extens...stations.shtml

And while i've got your attention, talking about Jubilee line to
Thamesmead, you say:

"Tunnel layout at North Greenwich permits the relatively easy construction
of a junction for a branch intended to serve the Isle of Dogs across the
river followed by Thamesmead."

Do you really mean that? A line from North Greenwich to the Isle of Dogs
to Thamesmead would be a most extraordinary shape! Did you by any chance
mean "to serve the Royal Docks across the river"?

However, the whole area is ripe for regeneration. Some of which is
already past planning stage. Just take a trip down there and you'll see
vast areas of riverside land ripe for new homes and offices/warehouses.
It already started with furlong Homes starting their development. The
DLR extension itself will also breathe some life into the area. The area
itself is well connected. Woolwich Ferry over to the south of London,
North and South Circular nearby, M25 and M11 just minutes away. City
Airport is so close. you are minutes from Canary Wharf and not far from
The City.

I was thinking about this yesterday, when i was waiting for the ferry. I
was wondering what the area would be like in a hundred or two years; Ken's
masterplan basically makes the area the focus for London's growth, so are
we going to see it slowly turning into a new west end? After all, it's
close to Docklands and the City, it's getting good transport links, so why
not? Will we see the banks at Woolwich lined with glittering skyscrapers,
a blaze of neon and phosphor at night? Will Dartford be the new Ealing?
Grays the new Harrow? The royal docks the new Hyde park? Greenwich the new
South Bank? You can object that the area's too far from the bulk of
London, but what will two hundred years of growth and migration do to
that? Will another three hundred years see London a city wrapped around
the Thames from Windsor to Canvey Island, with the living heart of it
being the places we're talking about now, and Trafalgar Square just a
quaint tourist attraction in the Old Town? tourists taking boat trips out
west to the Tower? West End Lane and Upper Street quiet strolls for the
retired people who populate the areas around them? Piccadilly Circus
bulldozed for an out-of-town shopping centre?

And while we're on the subject of the ferry: will the Thames Gateway
bridge provide a viable alternative for the crossing of the
north/south circular over the Thames? It will at the north side, but how
would you get from the south end to the A205? It's not intended for that
job, but if i were a lorry driver, i'd be quite tempted to use it rather
than wait for the ferry. Are we going to see traffic levels on the A2016
and A206 skyrocket?

Another PS to Dave: TfL gateway bridge site now at:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/thames-gat...gb-intro.shtml

All in all a lot of positives. So if I were the planners, I would keep
the NLL going so when the regeneration does come around they don't need
to replan things and build "new" railways and trams when they already
have a system in place.

The current plan trades a heavy rail line with 4 tph and 4-car trains for
a light rail line with 5 tph (to begin with - 10 tph then 15 tph later)
and tiny trains plus, a bit later on, a heavy rail line with 12 tph and
10-12 car trains; the current line goes to Stratford and north and west
London, whereas the new lines would go to Stratford, Docklands, Lewisham,
and central and west London. If anything, i think that's going to increase
provision to the area. Eventually.

tom

--
Who would you help in a fight, Peter van der Linden or Bill Gates?

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2005, londoncityslicker wrote:

"ONscotland" wrote in message
ups.com...

Last week I bought a Travelcard and a little camera and went to North
Woolwich.

I've been down there by bike twice in the last month. It hardly feels
like London at all.

I was there checking out how the DLR extension was progressing some time
ago, and I found it extremely odd.

I can't seem to find out what will happen to this section of track
when the DLR opens? I assume it will be closed as you can see the new
DLR section from the train.

Well it's almost certain that that the DLR will take over the line from
Canning Town to Stratford.

Question: what's going to happen to the existing Stratford branch when
the new one opens?

Nothing in particular. Services from Stratford via West Ham will only
run to Beckton/Dagenham Dock or Woolwich Arsenal. The existing Stratford
branch will get a frequency improvement in any case, as the existing DLR
platform will be moved and rebuilt as two platforms.

The rest of the line from Canning Town to North Woolwich is likely to be
closed.

And then to become part of Crossrail.

Yes, physically, although since it will only serve Custom House station,
it won't provide any local journey opportunities that were provided by
the Silverlink service (not that it really matters, with the DLR route
opening soon).

Also, paging Dave Arquati: TfL have changed their site layout a bit, so
your link to the map of proposed stations on the new Stratford DLR line
is broken; it's now he

http://developments.dlr.co.uk/extens...stations.shtml

Silly TfL. They've also broken all the links to their departmental press
offices on their own site, which is annoying.

And while i've got your attention, talking about Jubilee line to
Thamesmead, you say:

"Tunnel layout at North Greenwich permits the relatively easy
construction of a junction for a branch intended to serve the Isle of
Dogs across the river followed by Thamesmead."

Do you really mean that? A line from North Greenwich to the Isle of Dogs
to Thamesmead would be a most extraordinary shape! Did you by any chance
mean "to serve the Royal Docks across the river"?

Silly Dave. Check now and it's almost as though I'd never made the
mistake in the first place...

However, the whole area is ripe for regeneration. Some of which is
already past planning stage. Just take a trip down there and you'll
see vast areas of riverside land ripe for new homes and
offices/warehouses. It already started with furlong Homes starting
their development. The DLR extension itself will also breathe some
life into the area. The area itself is well connected. Woolwich Ferry
over to the south of London, North and South Circular nearby, M25 and
M11 just minutes away. City Airport is so close. you are minutes from
Canary Wharf and not far from The City.

I was thinking about this yesterday, when i was waiting for the ferry. I
was wondering what the area would be like in a hundred or two years;
Ken's masterplan basically makes the area the focus for London's growth,
so are we going to see it slowly turning into a new west end? After all,
it's close to Docklands and the City, it's getting good transport links,
so why not? Will we see the banks at Woolwich lined with glittering
skyscrapers, a blaze of neon and phosphor at night? Will Dartford be the
new Ealing? Grays the new Harrow? The royal docks the new Hyde park?
Greenwich the new South Bank? You can object that the area's too far
from the bulk of London, but what will two hundred years of growth and
migration do to that? Will another three hundred years see London a city
wrapped around the Thames from Windsor to Canvey Island, with the living
heart of it being the places we're talking about now, and Trafalgar
Square just a quaint tourist attraction in the Old Town? tourists taking
boat trips out west to the Tower? West End Lane and Upper Street quiet
strolls for the retired people who populate the areas around them?
Piccadilly Circus bulldozed for an out-of-town shopping centre?

I'd say... nope. Although Woolwich will become a significant local
centre, I reckon it'll be more of a Hammersmith than a West End.
Although transport links in the east are improving, it would take a
truly massive level of investment for them to reach the levels that the
centre currently enjoys. It's possible, but since the central stuff is
already there, I'm not convinced that it will shift the focus of London
completely. Canary Wharf is set to become yet more important though -
but I don't think that will be to the detriment of the City (or indeed
the West End!).

London has been growing with its centre placed on the City for many
hundreds of years; it's probably not shifting any time soon.

This is all, of course, my humble opinion.

And while we're on the subject of the ferry: will the Thames Gateway
bridge provide a viable alternative for the crossing of the north/south
circular over the Thames? It will at the north side, but how would you
get from the south end to the A205? It's not intended for that job, but
if i were a lorry driver, i'd be quite tempted to use it rather than
wait for the ferry. Are we going to see traffic levels on the A2016 and
A206 skyrocket?

Most likely, and I think this is something the opponents of the bridge
are rather concerned about.

Another PS to Dave: TfL gateway bridge site now at:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/thames-gat...gb-intro.shtml

Arrrrgh (but thanks for pointing it out)!

All in all a lot of positives. So if I were the planners, I would keep
the NLL going so when the regeneration does come around they don't
need to replan things and build "new" railways and trams when they
already have a system in place.

The current plan trades a heavy rail line with 4 tph and 4-car trains
for a light rail line with 5 tph (to begin with - 10 tph then 15 tph
later) and tiny trains plus, a bit later on, a heavy rail line with 12
tph and 10-12 car trains; the current line goes to Stratford and north
and west London, whereas the new lines would go to Stratford, Docklands,
Lewisham, and central and west London. If anything, i think that's going
to increase provision to the area. Eventually.

I agree. The planned improvements are very suitable for the planned
developments, particularly trading in the NLL infrastructure for
Crossrail and feeding traffic into Custom House from the eastern
developments via the DLR Dagenham Dock extension.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sun, 22 May 2005 12:59:02 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Also, paging Dave Arquati: TfL have changed their site layout a bit, so
your link to the map of proposed stations on the new Stratford DLR line is
broken; it's now he

http://developments.dlr.co.uk/extens...stations.shtml

"The Stratford International extension would necessitate the upgrading
to DLR specifications of the existing stations at Custom House,
Canning Town, West Ham and Stratford."

Custom House?

Charlie

--
Remove NO-SPOO-PLEASE from my email address to reply
Please send no unsolicited email or foodstuffs

I've explored that area by bike a bit, and travelled the NLL to North
Woolwich last summer. It is indeed peculiar.

However whilst some bits might feel like their forgotten, travel a
short distance and you'll find that regeneration is in full swing. The
massive Excel conference centre & exhibition hall complex, the ever
more popular London City Airport, the DLR extension, the large retail
park off the North Circular on part of the site of the old Beckton gas
works (as used in Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket), the Docklands campus of
the University of East London and various other completed and in
progress housing and office developments around the Royal Docks. Apart
from Excel, much of this isn't apparent from the window of an NLL
train!

Whether or not the said regeneration benefits locals, however, would be
to delve into a classic thorny question of the rebirth of the Docklands.

Mizter T wrote:
I've explored that area by bike a bit, and travelled the NLL to North
Woolwich last summer. It is indeed peculiar.

However whilst some bits might feel like their forgotten, travel a
short distance and you'll find that regeneration is in full swing. The
massive Excel conference centre & exhibition hall complex, the ever
more popular London City Airport, the DLR extension, the large retail
park off the North Circular on part of the site of the old Beckton gas
works (as used in Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket), the Docklands campus of
the University of East London and various other completed and in
progress housing and office developments around the Royal Docks. Apart
from Excel, much of this isn't apparent from the window of an NLL
train!

Whether or not the said regeneration benefits locals, however, would be
to delve into a classic thorny question of the rebirth of the Docklands.

Fair enough but, as I've sometimes wondered, when someone moves into a
nieghbourhood how long is it before they can consider themselves a
'local' person?