wrote in message
oups.com...

Major snip (virtual vasectomy) !!!

I have always thought the 3 car
trains from Euston to Watford Junc needed extra carriages when you see
the overcrowding so would have thought that this should take priority
over the NLL.
Kevin

How could you possibly justify this when the line goes nowhere near any
planned Olympic event except, possibly, for anything at Wembley ?
Cheerz,
Baz

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:48:58 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

wrote:


91m package of improvements to the North London Line


the 3 car trains from Euston to Watford Junc needed extra carriages
when you see the overcrowding


The same could be said about the trains on the WAGN lines. I really
don't get Ken's infatuation with the NLL; it's just not serving a
corridor with heavy demand,


Have you BEEN on it during the peaks?


It has peaks?

I'm sure this conversation has been done before not long ago...

The NLL is *busy*! Particularly so during the peaks - but the trains
load well in the offpeaks too! I've been on NLL trains on Sundays where
every seat has been occupied - and sometimes that's even when part of
the line is bustituted.

Even the comparatively short WLL is pretty busy in the peaks, on the
Silverlink shuttle services which only call at 4 stations. There are
proposals to introduce eight-car trains on it in the future when funds
become available for resignalling.

There is demand for inner London orbital rail services. Apparently even
the GOBLIN can get overcrowded during the peaks, and that has tiny
trains and a rubbish frequency!

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:48:58 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

wrote:

91m package of improvements to the North London Line

the 3 car trains from Euston to Watford Junc needed extra carriages when
you see the overcrowding

The same could be said about the trains on the WAGN lines. I really don't
get Ken's infatuation with the NLL; it's just not serving a corridor with
heavy demand,

Have you BEEN on it during the peaks?

It has peaks?

I'm sure this conversation has been done before not long ago...

Mea culpa.

The NLL is *busy*! Particularly so during the peaks - but the trains
load well in the offpeaks too! I've been on NLL trains on Sundays where
every seat has been occupied - and sometimes that's even when part of
the line is bustituted.

Even the comparatively short WLL is pretty busy in the peaks, on the
Silverlink shuttle services which only call at 4 stations. There are
proposals to introduce eight-car trains on it in the future when funds
become available for resignalling.

There is demand for inner London orbital rail services. Apparently even
the GOBLIN can get overcrowded during the peaks, and that has tiny
trains and a rubbish frequency!

All true, but bear in mind that the busyness of a line is proportional to
demand divided by service level; the crowding you mention is as much to do
with the fact that the lines have so few cars per hour as to do with the
numbers of people who want to use them.

Of course, that does mean that in terms of amount of crowding relief per
pound spent, these are the most cost-effective lines to improve. Dammit!

tom

--
.... a tale for which the world is not yet prepared

I brought the cost of that up a few weeks back but to be fair it is a
little more than a ticket hall, but still, £400M, you could build half
a millenium dome for that.

Kevin

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:48:58 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

wrote:


91m package of improvements to the North London Line


the 3 car trains from Euston to Watford Junc needed extra
carriages when you see the overcrowding


The same could be said about the trains on the WAGN lines. I really
don't get Ken's infatuation with the NLL; it's just not serving a
corridor with heavy demand,


Have you BEEN on it during the peaks?


It has peaks?


I'm sure this conversation has been done before not long ago...


Mea culpa.

The NLL is *busy*! Particularly so during the peaks - but the trains
load well in the offpeaks too! I've been on NLL trains on Sundays
where every seat has been occupied - and sometimes that's even when
part of the line is bustituted.

Even the comparatively short WLL is pretty busy in the peaks, on the
Silverlink shuttle services which only call at 4 stations. There are
proposals to introduce eight-car trains on it in the future when funds
become available for resignalling.

There is demand for inner London orbital rail services. Apparently
even the GOBLIN can get overcrowded during the peaks, and that has
tiny trains and a rubbish frequency!


All true, but bear in mind that the busyness of a line is proportional
to demand divided by service level; the crowding you mention is as much
to do with the fact that the lines have so few cars per hour as to do
with the numbers of people who want to use them.

Of course, that does mean that in terms of amount of crowding relief per
pound spent, these are the most cost-effective lines to improve. Dammit!

Cha-ching... we're quids in :-)

I'll still be impressed if that £91m runs to all the proposed
improvements. Mind you, Chiltern Railways managed to double a whole load
of single-track railway for around that cost, so maybe it's not that
unrealistic.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article , (Dave Arquati)
wrote:

I'll still be impressed if that £91m runs to all the proposed
improvements. Mind you, Chiltern Railways managed to double a whole
load of single-track railway for around that cost, so maybe it's not
that unrealistic.

It's really depressing that 10 years ago, before privatisation, we'd never
have asked the question, would we?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:50:18 +0000 (UTC), Mike Bristow
wrote:

In article ,
asdf wrote:
[the NLL]
Have you BEEN on it during the peaks?

Only when demand is so heavy on the GOBLIN that there are passengers
left stranded on the platform when the trains departs - which happens
about once a month.

Interesting - I don't use the GOBLIN much but I saw the 06.56 to Gospel
Oak leave Blackhorse Road the other morning and it certainly appeared to
be full with all seats taken. I was somewhat surprised that it was that
busy.

I've certainly seen the NLL running to standing room only and I'm not
the least bit surprised given that it serves a great many populous areas
and has reasonable interchange facilities to tube and rail services.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:48:52 +0100, "Marratxi"
wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...

Major snip (virtual vasectomy) !!!

I have always thought the 3 car
trains from Euston to Watford Junc needed extra carriages when you see
the overcrowding so would have thought that this should take priority
over the NLL.
Kevin

How could you possibly justify this when the line goes nowhere near any
planned Olympic event except, possibly, for anything at Wembley ?

Because Eurostars have got plenty of carriages as it is?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:06:50 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:



The NLL?

Never seen a usenet stutter before. So, what's the significance of
Hackneys Wicked in Ken's masterplan, then? Or is it just a recognition
that it is simply the most desirable place to live in the whole city?

Hackney Wick is the nearest station to the Olympics site, AFAIK.

Paul Corfield wrote:

Interesting - I don't use the GOBLIN much but I saw the 06.56 to Gospel
Oak leave Blackhorse Road the other morning and it certainly appeared to
be full with all seats taken. I was somewhat surprised that it was that
busy.

I've certainly seen the NLL running to standing room only and I'm not
the least bit surprised given that it serves a great many populous areas
and has reasonable interchange facilities to tube and rail services.

I think reasonable is a bit strong. Round here, after a useful
interchange with the Bakerloo at Willesden Junction, in the space of
about 4 miles it crosses 3 major lines with no interchange at all,
until it starts sharing tracks with one branch of the District.

I am sure this is why this section is relatively uncrowded.

The great value of the NLL, with more capacity and those new
interchanges put in, is that it makes it practical (ie no slower) to
avoid zone 1 for many more journeys. This relieves congestion where it
is worst, whereas boosting capacity on radial lines increases zone 1
congestion.

Colin McKenzie