Steven wrote:

And you can hardly expect them to configure the Electrostars so that
they can carry vast quantities of bikes just for one day a year.

One could, however, argue that had they specified trains which could carry a
sensible number of bikes in the first place, then cyclists would use them
frequently and with vigour. When the old British Snail stopped charging for
bikes on trains twenty-something years ago, weekend trains out of London
were suddenly awash with cyclists heading out to the country...

--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
Electricity comes from other planets.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:46:10 +0100, "Dave Larrington"
wrote:

One could, however, argue that had they specified trains which could carry a
sensible number of bikes in the first place.

They *will* carry a sensible number of cycles.

They just can't cope with the number that they'd get for an event such as this.

I use Electrostars regularly, and have never seen more than two bikes in one
carriage. And that's *very* rare. You can't expect then to waste space on
providing facilities that are rarely used but would detract from the comfort and
utility of the trains for their bread and butter work.

Steven wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:46:10 +0100, "Dave Larrington"
wrote:

One could, however, argue that had they specified trains which could carry a
sensible number of bikes in the first place.

They *will* carry a sensible number of cycles.

They just can't cope with the number that they'd get for an event such as this.

I use Electrostars regularly, and have never seen more than two bikes in one
carriage. And that's *very* rare. You can't expect then to waste space on
providing facilities that are rarely used but would detract from the comfort and
utility of the trains for their bread and butter work.

The answer is to have trains that are flexible use. Ie carriages that
will allow bulky luggage, prams, bikes, wheelchairs etc. or hods of
standing cattle^^^^^^^commuters during crush hour. There is nothing to
be lost and everything to be gained from such a configuration. Oh,
except that people might actually use the trains with a bit more than
just a small briefcase..

I would be quite happy for bulky goods (large suitcases, bicycles,
prams etc.) to be carried at a nominal handling charge if I could be
reasonably sure of getting a bike oto a train. It makes a mockery of
the train service when a family of five cannot travel with bikes.. I'm
thinking of the highland lines where you can only fit 2 bikes per train
(officially).

...d

David Martin wrote:

I would be quite happy for bulky goods (large suitcases, bicycles,
prams etc.) to be carried at a nominal handling charge if I could be
reasonably sure of getting a bike oto a train. It makes a mockery of
the train service when a family of five cannot travel with bikes.. I'm
thinking of the highland lines where you can only fit 2 bikes per
train (officially).

When I was a penniless student oaf, the Uni cycling club would meet up on a
Sunday morning, decide where we wanted to go, ride to the appropriate
station, get on the train, go to the green and pleasant countryside, ride
around the place and return. Nowadays this would not be possible.
Apparently this is "progress".

However, I believe you /can/ still take a washing machine or a stuffed
hippopotamus with you as "luggage".

--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
While you were out at the Rollright Stones, I came and set fire to your
Shed.

On 17 Jun 2005 08:24:13 -0700, "David Martin"
wrote:



Steven wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:46:10 +0100, "Dave Larrington"
wrote:

One could, however, argue that had they specified trains which could carry a
sensible number of bikes in the first place.

They *will* carry a sensible number of cycles.

They just can't cope with the number that they'd get for an event such as this.

I use Electrostars regularly, and have never seen more than two bikes in one
carriage. And that's *very* rare. You can't expect then to waste space on
providing facilities that are rarely used but would detract from the comfort and
utility of the trains for their bread and butter work.

The answer is to have trains that are flexible use. Ie carriages that
will allow bulky luggage, prams, bikes, wheelchairs etc. or hods of
standing cattle^^^^^^^commuters during crush hour. There is nothing to
be lost and everything to be gained from such a configuration. Oh,
except that people might actually use the trains with a bit more than
just a small briefcase..

You can do all that on an Electrostar.

There is a limit, however.

Just the same as there is a limit to the number of people you can squeeze on.

On 06/17/2005 16:33:44 "Dave Larrington" wrote:

David Martin wrote:

I would be quite happy for bulky goods (large suitcases, bicycles, prams
etc.) to be carried at a nominal handling charge if I could be reasonably
sure of getting a bike oto a train. It makes a mockery of the train
service when a family of five cannot travel with bikes.. I'm thinking of
the highland lines where you can only fit 2 bikes per train (officially).

When I was a penniless student oaf, the Uni cycling club would meet up on
a Sunday morning, decide where we wanted to go, ride to the appropriate
station, get on the train, go to the green and pleasant countryside, ride
around the place and return. Nowadays this would not be possible.
Apparently this is "progress".

However, I believe you /can/ still take a washing machine or a stuffed
hippopotamus with you as "luggage".

But Uni cycles only have one wheel! heh

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

Steven wrote:
On 17 Jun 2005 08:24:13 -0700, "David Martin"
wrote:
I use Electrostars regularly, and have never seen more than two bikes in one
carriage. And that's *very* rare. You can't expect then to waste space on
providing facilities that are rarely used but would detract from the comfort and
utility of the trains for their bread and butter work.

The answer is to have trains that are flexible use. Ie carriages that
will allow bulky luggage, prams, bikes, wheelchairs etc. or hods of
standing cattle^^^^^^^commuters during crush hour. There is nothing to
be lost and everything to be gained from such a configuration. Oh,
except that people might actually use the trains with a bit more than
just a small briefcase..

You can do all that on an Electrostar.

Where do I find one of these mythical beasts? Any online plans as to
the internal layout, and how many bikes will one take.

There is a limit, however.

Just the same as there is a limit to the number of people you can squeeze on.

Indeed. Space inside a train is not infinite. But it is a bit galling
to be told you cannot take a bike because there are already two on
board and over half the seats are empty (or the train is so choc-a-bloc
with peoples suitcases)

...d

"David Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...

Where do I find one of these mythical beasts? Any online plans as to
the internal layout, and how many bikes will one take.

Each Electrostar will take (officially) two bicycles in the marked area for
bicycles, wheelchairs etc. (look for the cycle/wheelchair symbols on the
outside of the doors). Most trains are formed of more than one Electrostar
unit (for example, in the peaks Brighton trains are formed of four three-car
units, theoretically offering at least eight cycle spaces). In practise, on
most services out of the peak, no-one will object to additional bicycles
being parked in the vestibule areas. I, for one, have never had a problem
when travelling with a cycle.

Being both a cyclist and a railway enthusiast it is interesting to see the
arguments presented from both viewpoints. For quite a while now there have
been many complaints about the fact the the Electrostar and Turbostar (the
diesel version) devote one third of an entire coach to the disabled-access
toilet, the five (or less, depends on the specification by the train
operating company) tip-up seats that can be used as wheelchair spaces or for
people travelling with wheelchair passengers and the cycle stowage areas.
Critics regularly point out that there is no need for more than one
disabled-access toilet per train and that when trains are formed of more
than one unit there is an over-provision of such accommodation, where normal
seating could be provided. Nice in theory but how do you cater for flexible
train lengths using fixed-formation trains, where you have the regulatory
requirement to provide disabled accomodation, whether the train is a
three-car unit or a twelve-car formation?

On 17 Jun 2005 09:21:50 -0700, "David Martin"
wrote:

You can do all that on an Electrostar.

Where do I find one of these mythical beasts?

London Victoria Station.

There are lots there.

Indeed. Space inside a train is not infinite. But it is a bit galling
to be told you cannot take a bike because there are already two on
board and over half the seats are empty (or the train is so choc-a-bloc
with peoples suitcases)

It is annoying when people apply regulations that are designed for worst case
loading for a lightly loaded train, but they can't really spend a lot of time
second guessing how many people are going to get on down the line.

When I was a penniless student oaf, the Uni cycling club
would meet up on a Sunday morning, decide where we
wanted to go, ride to the appropriate station, get on the
train, go to the green and pleasant countryside, ride around
the place and return. Nowadays this would not be possible.

Why not? Almost all the TOCs take cycles free off peak
(and it's off peak all day on Sundays). Some long distance
journeys 'require' pre-booking, but on MML and GNER if
you turn up with a bike and they've got space in the goods
section they'll take the bike even if you don't have a
reservation (the GNER Mallards have nice new yellow
bike racks built in). MML don't even require reservations
on Meridian trains.

See: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/cycling.htm


Matt Ashby
www.mattashby.com