On 24 Jun 2005 04:08:01 -0700, "Rupert Candy"
wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
How close to Moorgate are the DLR platforms? And don't the end pointing to
the north already?

There's a single-track headshunt to the north-west (IIRC) of the Bank
DLR platforms which extends quite a long way towards Moorgate (I
suppose it's where the TBM ended up). But, as has been discussed before
when deciding what to do with the Moorgate Thameslink branch, how are
you going to get the trains up to sub-surface level between the end of
the headshunt and the platforms at Moorgate?

You are assuming that there will be connections at Moorgate. If
Crossrail is built I cannot see how on earth DLR could possibly
construct any sort of station in the Moorgate area. Given how easy the
Northern Line connection is at Bank from DLR I would not be at all
surprised that DLR simply bypassed Moorgate as it climbs to the surface
and that the DLR station at Farringdon would be double ended with
Barbican Tube Station.

If there is an extension to Charing Cross then I'd quite like to see a
link that ran via St Pauls, City Thameslink / Blackfriars, Aldwych and
Charing Cross. That would be a very useful link but it would be
phenomenally expensive to construct and I think even 3 car DLR trains
would struggle to cope with the potential flows of passengers if the bus
services over this corridor were reduced (as is normal practice).

It also raises the question about just how many East - West links London
needs between the West End, the City and Docklands. You'd end up with
the Central Line, Jubilee Line, Crossrail and DLR. Can 4 such high
capacity services really be justified in today's climate of no
government spending on rail or light transit investment? I appreciate
the Mayor has a few billion at his disposal but Crossrail would eat all
of that money and more.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On 24 Jun 2005 04:08:01 -0700, "Rupert Candy"
wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
How close to Moorgate are the DLR platforms? And don't the end pointing
to
the north already?

There's a single-track headshunt to the north-west (IIRC) of the Bank
DLR platforms which extends quite a long way towards Moorgate (I
suppose it's where the TBM ended up). But, as has been discussed before
when deciding what to do with the Moorgate Thameslink branch, how are
you going to get the trains up to sub-surface level between the end of
the headshunt and the platforms at Moorgate?

You are assuming that there will be connections at Moorgate. If
Crossrail is built I cannot see how on earth DLR could possibly
construct any sort of station in the Moorgate area. Given how easy the
Northern Line connection is at Bank from DLR I would not be at all
surprised that DLR simply bypassed Moorgate as it climbs to the surface
and that the DLR station at Farringdon would be double ended with
Barbican Tube Station.

If there is an extension to Charing Cross then I'd quite like to see a
link that ran via St Pauls, City Thameslink / Blackfriars, Aldwych and
Charing Cross. That would be a very useful link but it would be
phenomenally expensive to construct and I think even 3 car DLR trains
would struggle to cope with the potential flows of passengers if the bus
services over this corridor were reduced (as is normal practice).

It also raises the question about just how many East - West links London
needs between the West End, the City and Docklands. You'd end up with
the Central Line, Jubilee Line, Crossrail and DLR. Can 4 such high
capacity services really be justified in today's climate of no
government spending on rail or light transit investment? I appreciate
the Mayor has a few billion at his disposal but Crossrail would eat all
of that money and more.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

I agree that a DLR station at Moorgate seems a bit too much, considering
that it's an easy trip on the Northern from Bank and that Crossrail will
connect it to the Isle of Dogs. However, as the route is on it's way to
Farringdon then it may be useful simply to give more interchange to LU
services.

It is certainly a busy area in terms of rail services. But note that the
crossrail station is actually a few hundred yards away from Moorgate station
proper and is at Moorhouse. So maybe there is space to fit a DLR line
through it. Or maybe Moorhouse will has infact have the space for a DLR
line.
Also the WAGN services which are peak only at the moment (I think). There is
a possibility of them being wound down, in which case DLR could make use of
these platforms. I'm not too sure of the logistics of that one though.

The Charing Cross link looks the most interesting. As for cost. It's likely
to be high. And i agree that even with 3 car. The line is likely to be
stretched to capacity in the peak and maybe at other times.

In article ,
(londoncityslicker) wrote:

Also the WAGN services which are peak only at the moment (I think).
There is a possibility of them being wound down, in which case DLR could
make use of these platforms. I'm not too sure of the logistics of that
one though.

Surely the orientation is all wrong there?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Bob Wood" wrote in message
...
In ,
John Rowland typed:

"Peter Goodland" petergoodland.at.hotmail.com wrote in message
...

Modern Railways mentions that the DLR are considering
possible extensions to Farringdon and/or Charing Cross.

The Charing Cross branch could run along the original planned
Fleet/Jubilee line route via City Thameslink and Aldwych,
and take over the abandoned Jubilee line tunnels and
platforms at Charing Cross.

I don't think the present DLR stock will fit in the Jubilee tunnels
from Aldwych to Charing Cross.

Jubilee tunnels from Aldwych to Charing Cross?

Tell me more!

Phase 1 of the Jubilee Line (Baker St to Charing Cross) was constructed
approximately as far as Aldwych. This is so that trains could pull into ChX
at speed with minimal risk of hitting a dead end.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , Stevie writes
The one that they particular mentioned was Lewisham to Catford which
they say scores quite favourably and they've got the support of
Lewisham council for.
A fly in the ointment, is that it would allow Duhg access to London, so
that he can harass all the motorists.
--
Clive

Stevie wrote:
Peter Goodland wrote:

Modern Railways mentions that the DLR are considering possible
extensions to Farringdon and/or Charing Cross.
Both of these could be very interesting.


The Wharf mentioned a few weeks ago that they're currently got a
shortlist of 10 possible DLR extensions that they're now whittling down
to just 3 or 4.

The one that they particular mentioned was Lewisham to Catford which
they say scores quite favourably and they've got the support of Lewisham
council for.

Any idea what the route might be? They wouldn't take over the South
Eastern Trains service via Ladywell, would they?

--
Mark Etherington

In article , Peter
Goodland writes
The idea of the Fleet/Jubilee line extension to the city was presumably
abandoned some time before the current extension further south was built.
IIRC, the original Fleet line plan was to include stations at Aldwych,
Holborn Viaduct and Bank.

Aldwych, Ludgate Circus, Cannon Street, Fenchurch Street, St.Katherine's
Dock, Wapping, then via ELL and BR lines to Lewisham.

I was speculating on whether this new plan would follow the same route,
after all there are abandoned platforms at Charing Cross
and some tunnel east of there towards Aldwych.

DLR trains are almost certainly too big to fit.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes
then along the course of the Fleet

Actually it would be at right angles to the Fleet!

The Fleet actually tracks, pretty closely, the Thameslink line from
Kentish Town to Blackfriars. Holborn Viaduct (the road) is a viaduct
*over the Fleet valley*.

(hence
the planned name "Fleet Line"),

Actually that was from Fleet Street.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article ,
londoncityslicker writes
Also the WAGN services which are peak only at the moment (I think).

The WAGN services at Moorgate run Monday to Friday from about 0600 to
2200.

Do you mean the Thameslink services?

There is
a possibility of them being wound down, in which case DLR could make use of
these platforms. I'm not too sure of the logistics of that one though.

Getting up from the depths at Bank to the subsurface platforms at
Moorgate, while at the same time turning through a large angle and
without hitting any of the other tunnels down there, seems somewhat
impractical.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

In article , londoncityslicker
writes

Also the WAGN services [...] There is a possibility of them being wound
down, in which case DLR could make use of these platforms. I'm not too
sure of the logistics of that one though.

Getting up from the depths at Bank to the subsurface platforms at
Moorgate, while at the same time turning through a large angle and
without hitting any of the other tunnels down there, seems somewhat
impractical.

Just how deep is the DLR at Bank? ISTR that the DLR is capable of climbing
relatively steep gradients - steeper than the 1:30 that's the
rule-of-thumb limit on heavy rail. It's almost 600 metres from Bank to
Moorgate, and more along the looping route that a tunnel would have to
take - even at 1:30, that would allow 20 metres of climbing. Is that not
enough?

I suspect it's the loopiness that would be the real challenge: to get from
the north-north-west direction at Bank to the west-north-west direction at
Moorgate would involve a rather tight S-bend, with a radius of curvature
as little as 100 metres. And as for doing that without hitting tunnels or
foundations ...

Is there anything the Midland City stub could be used for, after it's
severed from Thameslink? Would it be possible to use it to handle
Metropolitan trains to Moorgate? Would there be any point?

tom

--
It's almost over now.