In article . com,
() wrote:

Full details in the TfL press release at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

The press release says, amongst other things:

"The closures will result in no service on the Piccadilly line from Acton
Town to Hyde Park Corner, with a reduced service on the rest of the line"

They don't mention the reduced service on the rest of the line again; any
idea what the service to the east of Hyde Park Corner is likely to be
like? Or to Uxbridge?

The release also says:

"Customers can still travel between Central London and Heathrow on the
Underground via the Central line to Ealing Broadway then the District line
shuttle to Acton Town which will operate at a frequency of three trains
per hour and then the Piccadilly line to Heathrow Terminals 123"

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

tom

--
All roads lead unto death row; who knows what's after?

Full details in the TfL press release at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

The release also says:

"Customers can still travel between Central London and Heathrow on the
Underground via the Central line to Ealing Broadway then the District line
shuttle to Acton Town which will operate at a frequency of three trains
per hour and then the Piccadilly line to Heathrow Terminals 123"

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

Only 1.5 mins turnaround at each end, for the entire day, would be a
bit hectic...

Of course, they could always just use 2 trains, and actually provide a
decent frequency. 3tph just doesn't cut it. It's a slap in the face
considering the "customers" are already being highly inconvenienced by
the closures.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

Full details in the TfL press release at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

The release also says:

"Customers can still travel between Central London and Heathrow on the
Underground via the Central line to Ealing Broadway then the District line
shuttle to Acton Town which will operate at a frequency of three trains
per hour and then the Piccadilly line to Heathrow Terminals 123"

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

Only 1.5 mins turnaround at each end, for the entire day, would be a
bit hectic...

I guess they'd have to step back. Other than that, i don't see why it
should be a big problem - after all, a normal station stop is shorter than
that.

Of course, they could always just use 2 trains, and actually provide a
decent frequency. 3tph just doesn't cut it. It's a slap in the face
considering the "customers" are already being highly inconvenienced by
the closures.

Quite so.

Ideally, rather than relying on the shuttle, they'd extend the Heathrow -
Acton Town Piccadilly stub to Ealing Broadway, via a reverse at Acton
Town. I'm assuming the track layout permits this; i'd guess lack of
drivers who know both legs prevents it, though. Trying to do that at any
useful rate of trains per hour would also be a bit of a challenge.

tom

--
I know you wanna try and get away, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever know

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:17:55 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

Full details in the TfL press release at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

The release also says:

"Customers can still travel between Central London and Heathrow on the
Underground via the Central line to Ealing Broadway then the District line
shuttle to Acton Town which will operate at a frequency of three trains
per hour and then the Piccadilly line to Heathrow Terminals 123"

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

Only 1.5 mins turnaround at each end, for the entire day, would be a
bit hectic...

I guess they'd have to step back. Other than that, i don't see why it
should be a big problem - after all, a normal station stop is shorter than
that.

Erm, what would be the point in stepping back? They'd need to have 3
drivers for that. They could just use 2 trains, have a higher
frequency, and only require 2 drivers.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:17:55 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

Full details in the TfL press release at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

The release also says:

"Customers can still travel between Central London and Heathrow on the
Underground via the Central line to Ealing Broadway then the District line
shuttle to Acton Town which will operate at a frequency of three trains
per hour and then the Piccadilly line to Heathrow Terminals 123"

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

Only 1.5 mins turnaround at each end, for the entire day, would be a
bit hectic...

I guess they'd have to step back. Other than that, i don't see why it
should be a big problem - after all, a normal station stop is shorter than
that.

Erm, what would be the point in stepping back? They'd need to have 3
drivers for that. They could just use 2 trains, have a higher frequency,
and only require 2 drivers.

Ah, er, yes, of course i was hoping you'd spot that. Yes, good point.

tom

--
In-jokes for out-casts

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:31:03 +0100, asdf
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:17:55 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

[Acton-ealing shuttle]
I guess they'd have to step back. Other than that, i don't see why it
should be a big problem - after all, a normal station stop is shorter than
that.

Erm, what would be the point in stepping back? They'd need to have 3
drivers for that. They could just use 2 trains, have a higher
frequency, and only require 2 drivers.

I think someone has underestimated the timing and pathing issues here.

As all trains will need to reverse at Acton - that's all Heathrows,
Rayners Lane and the Ealing Shuttle via one (?) turnback siding [1]
between the Picc Line tracks I think a 20 minute frequency is pretty
good going! The working arrangements are going to have to be pretty
slick to handle all the movements without huge train jams developing on
the approaches to Acton from the west.

[1] happy to be corrected by our resident train drivers if I've got this
wrong. I can't find my track plan.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

[Acton-ealing shuttle]

I think someone has underestimated the timing and pathing issues here.

As all trains will need to reverse at Acton - that's all Heathrows,
Rayners Lane and the Ealing Shuttle via one (?) turnback siding [1]
between the Picc Line tracks I think a 20 minute frequency is pretty
good going! The working arrangements are going to have to be pretty
slick to handle all the movements without huge train jams developing on
the approaches to Acton from the west.

[1] happy to be corrected by our resident train drivers if I've got this
wrong. I can't find my track plan.

http://www.simonclarke.org/lul/maps/pic_strip.gif shows 3...

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 18:34:48 +0100, asdf
wrote:

[Acton-ealing shuttle]

I think someone has underestimated the timing and pathing issues here.

As all trains will need to reverse at Acton - that's all Heathrows,
Rayners Lane and the Ealing Shuttle via one (?) turnback siding [1]
between the Picc Line tracks I think a 20 minute frequency is pretty
good going! The working arrangements are going to have to be pretty
slick to handle all the movements without huge train jams developing on
the approaches to Acton from the west.

[1] happy to be corrected by our resident train drivers if I've got this
wrong. I can't find my track plan.

http://www.simonclarke.org/lul/maps/pic_strip.gif shows 3...

That map is rather neat. Ta.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I think someone has underestimated the timing and pathing issues here.

As all trains will need to reverse at Acton - that's all Heathrows,
Rayners Lane and the Ealing Shuttle via one (?) turnback siding [1]
between the Picc Line tracks I think a 20 minute frequency is pretty
good going! The working arrangements are going to have to be pretty
slick to handle all the movements without huge train jams developing on
the approaches to Acton from the west.

[1] happy to be corrected by our resident train drivers if I've got this
wrong. I can't find my track plan.

Paul, there are 3 sidings at the east end of the station, but the
principle's the same.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)