#Paul wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 29 Jun 2005:

If your experience of buggies and mothers has made you
hostile, think about what their experience is. You're
just got to stand around like the nice gentleman you are;
they've got a buggy and child to shift.

#Paul

Unfortunately it's a vicious circle - in my day, when you took a buggy
on a bus folded, or not at all, they were lightweight and easy to fold.
Because they no longer need to be folded, they have become very much
larger and more unwieldy. So when they *do* need to be folded, as
sometimes happens, it's very much more difficult for the poor parent or
carer!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 May 2005

Clive wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 30 Jun 2005:

In message ,
writes
they've got a buggy and child to shift.
They are masters of their own fate. If they can't fold a push chair then
walk, if they can't walk then keep your knees together and you won't
have the trouble of push chairs and kids annoying real passengers who
need to get from A to B. Lets not forget that these women have all day
to do their shopping or what ever it is they do.

While I find buggies on buses can be as annoying and intrusive as you
evidently do, could I point out that a great many mothers of young
children are obliged to work to make ends meet (and this has always been
the case - the "Protestant work ethic" of father earning the family's
living while mother stayed at home with the children was always a
middle-class dream, never a working-class reality), so need to travel to
work when you do. Perhaps *you* could change *your* working hours,
since you are not encumbered by a family?

Please do try not to be so appallingly, insensitively offensive.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 May 2005

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:02:44 +0100, "Ian F."
wrote:

On a bus this afternoon, I was sitting on one of the jump-seats in the
wheelchair area. A girl with a buggy got on and glared at me until I got up
and gave her my place.

Most people think moving for "a girl with a buggy" is the polite thing
to do. Clearly your manners are deficient.

You have a choice of the *any vacant seat* (or even the top deck of a
double), whilst she has the choice of one or two seats near the only
available space to put her push-chair out of the way of other
passengers.

If the alternative was leaving the push-chair is the aisle, and then
sitting as cross to it as possible, it seems she made the right
decision for the greater comfort of all passengers.

The signage clearly says that the space is for wheelchairs - since when have
Big Mac-chomping, income support-claiming chav slappers with wailing brats
require the same level of concern as people in wheelchairs?

So what were YOU doing in the wheel-chair place? Was there not ANY
other seat on the bus?

Was she really eating a Big-Mac on the bus? How do you *know* she was
on income-support? Are these just unsubstantiated rantings, or or are
you just bleating because of YOUR selfishness?

Sounds like you need to think of others and put yourself in the place
of someone travelling with a child in a push-chair doing their best to
minimise inconvenience to other passengers - not just some oh-so
precious git in the jump-seat.

--

Cheers,

Jason.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?

In message , Mrs Redboots
writes
While I find buggies on buses can be as annoying and intrusive as you
evidently do, could I point out that a great many mothers of young
children are obliged to work to make ends meet (and this has always
been the case - the "Protestant work ethic" of father earning the
family's living while mother stayed at home with the children was
always a middle-class dream, never a working-class reality), so need to
travel to work when you do. Perhaps *you* could change *your* working
hours, since you are not encumbered by a family?

Please do try not to be so appallingly, insensitively offensive.
I am sorry for offending you, but I still think mothers with pushchairs
should have then folded before even attempting to board a bus. You're
right that I don't understand everyone's circumstances, but I do
understand the room these things take up and that modern buses of the
kneeling type are for wheelchair access not pushchair access. A little
thought would confirm my position, and I am white and working class.
Just go back a few years and you'll remember that whilst we had rear
loading with a conductor, he would refuse access to someone with an
unfolded pushchair and would only wait for it to be folded if the bus
was a bit early.
--
Clive

you won't have the trouble of push chairs and kids
annoying real passengers who need to get from
A to B. Lets not forget that these women have all
day to do their shopping or what ever it is they do.

I always presumed people with buggies were 'real
passengers who need to get from A to B'. I've
certainly never seen any holographic mothers with
prams, nor any women with toddlers riding around
and around on the bus all day not wanting to go
anywhere.

And of course many women with children have
full or part time jobs as well as looking after the
kids, but you knew that already.


Matt Ashby
www.mattashby.com

In article ,
(Clive) wrote:

In message ,
writes
they've got a buggy and child to shift.
They are masters of their own fate. If they can't fold a push chair
then walk, if they can't walk then keep your knees together and you
won't have the trouble of push chairs and kids annoying real passengers
who need to get from A to B. Lets not forget that these women have all
day to do their shopping or what ever it is they do.

I can see you're not a parent. Back to re-education camp for you my boy!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Clive wrote:
In message ,
writes
they've got a buggy and child to shift.
They are masters of their own fate. If they can't fold a push chair
then walk, if they can't walk then keep your knees together and you
won't have the trouble of push chairs and kids annoying real passengers
who need to get from A to B. Lets not forget that these women have all
day to do their shopping or what ever it is they do.
--
Clive

Clive, I'm very disappointed by this attitude. I often find your posts
very interesting so it's a shame to see that you think this way.

After all, your mother didn't keep her knees together, so what right do
you have to judge others?

Bringing up a child is not easy and being a good mother is a full-time
job. I suspect you are from an older generation of men that still does
not acknowledge this fact.

For a young "chav" (if we must use that word) mother the task is made
even harder by the fact that she herself probably did not have an
idyllic childhood and has no clear idea of how to deliver one for her
own children - as much as she would no doubt love to.

Perhaps you should consider the sacrifices your own mother made for
you, and the privileges that were bestowed upon you as a child, before
mouthing off like this.

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
I can see you're not a parent. Back to re-education camp for you my
boy!
Two, boy 27 girl22.
--
Clive

In message om,
writes
Perhaps you should consider the sacrifices your own mother made for
you, and the privileges that were bestowed upon you as a child, before
mouthing off like this.
Care to tell me what they were?
--
Clive

In article ,
(Clive) wrote:

In message , Mrs Redboots
writes
While I find buggies on buses can be as annoying and intrusive as you
evidently do, could I point out that a great many mothers of young
children are obliged to work to make ends meet (and this has always
been the case - the "Protestant work ethic" of father earning the
family's living while mother stayed at home with the children was
always a middle-class dream, never a working-class reality), so need
to travel to work when you do. Perhaps *you* could change *your*
working hours, since you are not encumbered by a family?

Please do try not to be so appallingly, insensitively offensive.
I am sorry for offending you, but I still think mothers with pushchairs
should have then folded before even attempting to board a bus. You're
right that I don't understand everyone's circumstances, but I do
understand the room these things take up and that modern buses of the
kneeling type are for wheelchair access not pushchair access. A
little thought would confirm my position, and I am white and working
class. Just go back a few years and you'll remember that whilst we had
rear loading with a conductor, he would refuse access to someone with
an unfolded pushchair and would only wait for it to be folded if the
bus was a bit early.

You don't understand the issues of transporting a young child, do you?

--
Colin Rosenstiel