Joel Rowbottom wrote:
Paul Terry wrote:

Since they were relatively small, I think it is possible they were
placed under a seat.

It doesn't look like it, though.


r.

I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube
carriage - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course.

Picc? Northern and Jubilee, surely?

The seats do lift - the IRA planted at least one bomb under the seat of
a train. Subsequently the seats were "secured" closed with a tamper
evident security loop.

Dave Newt wrote:
Joel Rowbottom wrote:
Paul Terry wrote:

Since they were relatively small, I think it is possible they were
placed under a seat.

It doesn't look like it, though.


r.

I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube
carriage - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course.

Picc? Northern and Jubilee, surely?

In message , at
14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom
remarked:
I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube
carriage

Correct.

- excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course.

Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them...
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom
remarked:
I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube
carriage

Correct.

- excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course.

Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them...
--
Roland Perry

According to Clive's incredibly detailed site about the Underground

http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Trains on the Piccadilly Line are "operated by 1973 Tube Stock,
designed with extra luggage space for airport travellers."

So no need to be on the train, just drop it in the luggage space. WRT
to the Circle Line trains, it appears that the Inner Platform at KXSP
allows for placement near a door in both directions that is not used
again for several stops. That means that the bomb would be on the
righthand side (facing front) of the eastbound train and the lefthand
side (facing front) of the westbound train. According to the BBC
picture of the eastbound train, it certainly appears like the bomb
blast is on the righthand side.

Questions:

How likely is it for two Circle Line trains to be within a minute of
each other at KXSP between 8:30 and 9:00 in the morning?

How long to get from the middle of the Circle Line platform to the
bottom of the escalator on the southern end of the Piccadilly line?

If you are at the top of the escalator and a Piccadilly train is
arriving at the station, would you know it before you got to the bottom
of the escalator? In other words, if you were at the top of the
escalator and a train was arriving or pulling in to the station could
you be certain to get to the train before it left?

If you are familiar with the station, how far in advance of a train's
appearance do you know one is arriving? Is there a signal, is there a
breeze, or do you just hear it coming?

In message .com, at
08:45:55 on Tue, 12 Jul 2005, remarked:


Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom
remarked:
I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube
carriage

Correct.

- excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course.

Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them...
--
Roland Perry

According to Clive's incredibly detailed site about the Underground

http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Trains on the Piccadilly Line are "operated by 1973 Tube Stock,
designed with extra luggage space for airport travellers."

So no need to be on the train, just drop it in the luggage space.

Yes, this is the luggage space of which I have spoken. And into which
the fold-down seats fold if

(a) there's no luggage in the way, and
(b) there are no standing passengers in the way.

As you may be able to deduce, this is not a *dedicated* luggage area,
just an extra large vestibule.

WRT
to the Circle Line trains, it appears that the Inner Platform at KXSP
allows for placement near a door in both directions that is not used
again for several stops. That means that the bomb would be on the
righthand side (facing front) of the eastbound train

Assuming the person doing the front-facing is inside the train. (Rather
than stood ahead of the train facing the [approaching] front of the
train.

and the lefthand
side (facing front) of the westbound train.

No, that would be the righthand side too.

According to the BBC
picture of the eastbound train, it certainly appears like the bomb
blast is on the righthand side.

Questions:

How likely is it for two Circle Line trains to be within a minute of
each other at KXSP between 8:30 and 9:00 in the morning?

Do you mean "Circle line trains" , or "trains on the Circle line"? The
track is used by Circle Line trains, Metropolitan Line Trains and
Hammersmith and City line trains.

If the former, it's extremely unlikely. If the latter, it's very likely.
(Noting that perhaps one in six trains on the tracks are likely to be
Circle rather than Metropolitan or H&C).

How long to get from the middle of the Circle Line platform to the
bottom of the escalator on the southern end of the Piccadilly line?

Five minutes perhaps. Remembering that the station is currently under a
huge reconstruction programme, and you have to make a detour to get from
what is in effect one completely separate station to another. And
assuming the down Piccadilly escalator is in service (they break down
quite frequently) and assuming the staff were allowing people down
(there were earlier reported problems with trains on the Piccadilly
line, and people are commonly prevented from descending to platform
level as a crowd control exercise). You would need to be very "pushy"
(and therefore rather obvious) to do it any faster than the milling
crowds would otherwise let you.

If you are at the top of the escalator and a Piccadilly train is
arriving at the station, would you know it before you got to the bottom
of the escalator?

No. It's a relatively long escalator and you can't see or hear. You also
can't tell from the number of passengers coming up the escalator because
it's shared with the Northern Line, and in any event the place is so
full of passengers at that time of the morning.

In other words, if you were at the top of the
escalator and a train was arriving or pulling in to the station could
you be certain to get to the train before it left?

No you wouldn't. But it doesn't matter because there will be another
train 90 seconds behind. Indeed, even if you are at the bottom of the
escalator at that time of the morning there is likely to be a big enough
crowd on the platform that you'll need to get the 2nd or 3rd train that
arrives. (My own strategy would be to move along the platform to the
rear of the train in order to be better assured on getting on the next
one).

If you are familiar with the station, how far in advance of a train's
appearance do you know one is arriving? Is there a signal, is there a
breeze, or do you just hear it coming?

If you are the front of the platform, you won't feel a breeze, and as
the platform is slightly curved you probably won't either see or hear it
until it's a carriage or two inside the station. Also, there will be a
huge crowd of people which is very distracting.

(At a different station, empty of passengers, at the end of the platform
the train arrives from, and with a clear sight line, you might get up to
30 seconds warning).

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message .com, at
(At a different station, empty of passengers, at the end of the platform
the train arrives from, and with a clear sight line, you might get up to
30 seconds warning).

The dot matrix displays provide a pretty good indication too... (except
in the case where there are major delays).

Pete.

Roland Perry wrote in uk.transport.london on Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:06:27
+0100 .com:

In message .com, at
08:45:55 on Tue, 12 Jul 2005, remarked:

How long to get from the middle of the Circle Line platform to the
bottom of the escalator on the southern end of the Piccadilly line?

Five minutes perhaps. Remembering that the station is currently under a
huge reconstruction programme, and you have to make a detour to get from
what is in effect one completely separate station to another.

As a reasonably frequent user of Kings Cross (albeit only a couple of
times a month on the tube side) I'd be struggling to recall the
quickest route between the two platforms immediately prior to last
Thursday.

--
Dave Hillam
"Then old Nobodaddy aloft, Farted & belchd & coughd
And said: I love hanging & drawing & quartering
Every bit as well as war & slaughtering"

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:42:09 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at
14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom
remarked:
I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube
carriage

Correct.

- excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course.

Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them...

There are NO tip up or fold up seats on 1973 stock which is used on the
Picc Line. Only the Northern Line has tip up seats in vestibule areas
while the Met Main stock has the old guards seats that certainly used to
tip down in the coach ends in the driving cars.

There are larger stand back areas and there is a fabric "bum perch"
provided in this area on the 73 stock.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
y.com...
In message , at
14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom
remarked:
I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube
carriage

Correct.

- excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course.

Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them...

There are *no* fold down seats of any sort in the cars of Piccadilly Line
73ts...
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change from jealous to sad to reply.

In article ,
(Steve Dulieu) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
y.com...
In message , at
14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom
remarked:
I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube
carriage

Correct.

- excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course.

Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them...

There are *no* fold down seats of any sort in the cars of Piccadilly
Line 73ts...

or on C Stock.

--
Colin Rosenstiel