In article , Paul Corfield
writes
On 19 Jul 2005 05:21:39 -0700, wrote:



Boltar wrote:
Well, at the Saturday press conference two days after the bombing Tim
O'Toole stated that the Piccadilly line tunnel was intact,

Just from what I've seen in the media and by the consequences of the
bombs it seems to me that they weren't all that powerful (otherwise
the carriages would have completely annihalated and no one inside
would have survived) so I suspect damage to the tunnels (which are
built a lot stronger than the trains) is probably limited to damaged
cabling and track.

Cabling can be a problem though. It was on the news a while ago. The
reason the Northern Line took so long to get working last time that had
an accident was that they didn't have any up to date wiring diagrams.
If the Piccadilly line is the same then that could take a while too.

This is correct but removal of the train will have to be done very
carefully to avoid causing even more damage to cables and other parts of
the infrastructure.

Half of the train at KX has been removed to Cockfosters depot while I am
told the Edgware Road carriages were being taken away by low loader
today having been craned out.

A large proportion of what I assume to be the Aldgate train was still
sitting in Liverpool St station westbound circle platform hooked up to a
guards van this morning.

--
Steve
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On 20 Jul 2005 10:05:59 -0700, wrote:

Given that London has continued to function without a Circle Line, I
wonder how much thought, if any, has been given to abolishing the
service altogether?

Lots.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...15bd219d68294c
was a recent discussion here on the subject.

--
James Farrar

September's coming soon

wrote:
Given that London has continued to function without a Circle Line, I
wonder how much thought, if any, has been given to abolishing the
service altogether? Line Controllers tell me that If one discounts that
caused by security alerts, late running has effectively disappeared
from the District and Met Lines, now that so much inner-London
conflicting flat junction working has ended. On my own recent journies
to & from work, it seems incredible not to lose up to 10 minutes
traversing the Whitechapel - Tower Hill section of the District whilst
waiting for the passage of Circle and H&C trains.

I do wonder where all the passengers have gone. I'm currently getting
the Central line in daily from Shepherd's Bush to the City, and I
haven't noticed any real increase in the number of passengers getting
on. I would've expected increases at interchanges like Bond St and
Oxford Circus for people diverting from the northern part of the Circle
(I know a Met service is running but surely it must be packed?), or
perhaps even Piccadilly passengers from further out diverting via or
switching to the Central instead.

In any case, the eastbound AM peak Central service increased from 24 to
27tph this week, which may have helped.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:42 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

Half of the train at KX has been removed to Cockfosters depot while
I am told the Edgware Road carriages were being taken away by low
loader today having been craned out.

How many cars were removed by rail Earlier reports said that the
rear
four cars of the Piccadilly train would be removed by rail towards
King's Cross while presumably the rear three car unit would have been
the simplest. The Circle trains are two-car units so at least one of
them should have been able to be removed by rail.

On the Picc Line I am sure our internal report said 4 cars. I assume
this was done to get the maximum amount of movable cars out of the way.
I appreciate this defies normal "logic" but we are not dealing with a
normal situation.

The Circle Line removal was explained to me as all cars being winched
out. Obviously only the one damaged car was taken out - as seen on TV.
I assume that the others have been pulled clear to allow the damaged
car
out. I've not seen a report on what has moved and to where re the
remaining Edgware Rd / Aldgate trains.

So there's been no report, internal or otherwise, which specifies the
numbers of the cars which were hit by the bombs (see my earlier post
about stock damage)?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:53:25 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

wrote:
Given that London has continued to function without a Circle Line, I
wonder how much thought, if any, has been given to abolishing the
service altogether? Line Controllers tell me that If one discounts that
caused by security alerts, late running has effectively disappeared
from the District and Met Lines, now that so much inner-London
conflicting flat junction working has ended. On my own recent journies
to & from work, it seems incredible not to lose up to 10 minutes
traversing the Whitechapel - Tower Hill section of the District whilst
waiting for the passage of Circle and H&C trains.

I do wonder where all the passengers have gone. I'm currently getting
the Central line in daily from Shepherd's Bush to the City, and I
haven't noticed any real increase in the number of passengers getting
on. I would've expected increases at interchanges like Bond St and
Oxford Circus for people diverting from the northern part of the Circle
(I know a Met service is running but surely it must be packed?)

Presumably on the Met they are running a much higher than usual
frequency of trains through to Moorgate, in the absence of Circle and
H&C (most would normally terminate at Baker Street). (I think access
to terminal platforms 3&4 at Moorgate is via a single track, which
would probably set the limit on capacity.)

In message , at 21:27:03 on
Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Paul Corfield remarked:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:52:27 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

[snip]

You'd need to use some intelligence to set up a suitable system. Why are
you so defeatist?

Roland - I was trying to give a flavour of the issues involved. I am not
being defeatist at all.

Whatever system is designed has to be easy for the public to understand.

I agree. But I think the public are more adaptable.

I make my contribution to this group voluntarily to try to help people
understand. I really don't need criticism for trying to be helpful.

Me too.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 00:13 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

So there's been no report, internal or otherwise, which specifies the
numbers of the cars which were hit by the bombs (see my earlier post
about stock damage)?

I've not seen anything but that doesn't mean such information does not
exist. I am not on the recovery team.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Roland Perry wrote:

I agree with some earlier posters that the Northern Line incident at
Camden Town (where a train hit the tunnel wall at a junction) seems to
provide the most realistic equivalent. And don't forget that the Central
Line train that derailed (at Chancery Lane?) damaged the tunnel and
platform in the process. How long did that take to repair (rather than
understanding what was wrong with the trains)?

Hello,

As a matter for comparison, I remember that it took more than two weeks
after July 16, 1995 (when a bombing killed 8 and injuried 50 at
Saint-Michel station on RER B line of Paris transit system) to get
normal service.

Note that Saint-Michel station is built on the *very* model of a deep LU
station: two tubes and central escalators. Even the walls opposite the
platform look like a London Underground station. One could excpect to
hear Stand Back, Train Approaching... As a difference, it has mainline
gauge and overhead supply.

Stanislas, who is very upset by this series of bombings - but those
won't deter me from coming to London next week!

--
inversez "kertanguy" et "de" pour me joindre

In article 1h032if.vzt4wpkh00g0N%stanislas.kertanguyde@lapos te.net,
(Stanislas de Kertanguy) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

I agree with some earlier posters that the Northern Line incident at
Camden Town (where a train hit the tunnel wall at a junction) seems
to
provide the most realistic equivalent. And don't forget that the
Central Line train that derailed (at Chancery Lane?) damaged the
tunnel and platform in the process. How long did that take to repair
(rather than understanding what was wrong with the trains)?

As a matter for comparison, I remember that it took more than two weeks
after July 16, 1995 (when a bombing killed 8 and injuried 50 at
Saint-Michel station on RER B line of Paris transit system) to get
normal service.

Note that Saint-Michel station is built on the *very* model of a deep
LU
station: two tubes and central escalators. Even the walls opposite the
platform look like a London Underground station. One could excpect to
hear Stand Back, Train Approaching... As a difference, it has mainline
gauge and overhead supply.

In fact the Piccadilly bomb was in the worst possible location, in a
running tunnel barely larger than the train so the blast was as
confined as possible. Even in a tube platform the blast would have been
a lot less concentrated.

Stanislas, who is very upset by this series of bombings - but those
won't deter me from coming to London next week!

Bienvenu!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , Roland
Perry writes
Or is the reduced capacity that would offer actually worse than running
nothing at all?

Quite possibly.

The Waterloo & City Line (IIRC) has alternative timetables for use if
one or two of the trains fail, but closes if three trains are out of
action because overcrowding would make things dangerous.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
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