MatSav wrote:

Incidentally, you'll NEVER get your bike UP with absailing equipment -
that's designed for going DOWN ;-)

Is that a challenge? IIRC the main feature of such a piece of equipment
is to prevent the rope from slipping past too quickly.. And such an
arrangement can easily be modified to work for going up as well as
down.. (says the bloke who has absailed using almost everything from
'classic' to the latest and greatest fancy bits..) A prusik knot is a
pain in the **** for ascending, there are many better variants out
there.

...d

"David Martin" wrote ...


MatSav wrote:

Incidentally, you'll NEVER get your bike UP with absailing equipment -
that's designed for going DOWN ;-)

Is that a challenge? IIRC the main feature of such a piece of equipment
is to prevent the rope from slipping past too quickly.. And such an
arrangement can easily be modified to work for going up as well as
down.. (says the bloke who has absailed using almost everything from
'classic' to the latest and greatest fancy bits..) A prusik knot is a
pain in the **** for ascending, there are many better variants out
there.

..d

"Ab" is the German word for "down", "seil" is the German word for rope. To
abseil is to descend a rope using a braking device.
The abseiling equipment that I've used (everything from the Dulfersitz to a
Gri-Gri , which only works on a single strand) prevents the abseiler from
slipping down the rope too quickly by wrapping the rope around something,
usually a locking carabiner. Since the rope has to be held in tension in
order for the abseiling device to work, it's going to be rather difficult to
move the abseiling device up the rope, although the abseiling device and the
attached climber/abseiler can be allowed to slide down the rope pretty
easily by moderating tension on the unanchored end of the rope and letting
gravity do the work. I'm not sure what you classify as abseiling equipment,
but nothing that I've used to abseil with would be especialy suited for
ascending, except perhaps short distances on low angle slabs.
--
mark

mark wrote:
"David Martin" wrote ...


MatSav wrote:

Incidentally, you'll NEVER get your bike UP with absailing equipment -
that's designed for going DOWN ;-)

Is that a challenge? IIRC the main feature of such a piece of equipment
is to prevent the rope from slipping past too quickly.. And such an
arrangement can easily be modified to work for going up as well as
down.. (says the bloke who has absailed using almost everything from
'classic' to the latest and greatest fancy bits..) A prusik knot is a
pain in the **** for ascending, there are many better variants out
there.

..d

"Ab" is the German word for "down", "seil" is the German word for rope. To
abseil is to descend a rope using a braking device.
The abseiling equipment that I've used (everything from the Dulfersitz to a
Gri-Gri , which only works on a single strand) prevents the abseiler from
slipping down the rope too quickly by wrapping the rope around something,
usually a locking carabiner. Since the rope has to be held in tension in
order for the abseiling device to work, it's going to be rather difficult to
move the abseiling device up the rope, although the abseiling device and the
attached climber/abseiler can be allowed to slide down the rope pretty
easily by moderating tension on the unanchored end of the rope and letting
gravity do the work. I'm not sure what you classify as abseiling equipment,
but nothing that I've used to abseil with would be especialy suited for
ascending, except perhaps short distances on low angle slabs.

Obviously it isn't ideal for ascending, but that doesn't mean it can't
be done ;-)

I could probably do SRT with a petzl stop and a figure eight (or a
couple of spare karabiners and a cows tail, or a spare sling, or...

Adaptability is the name of the game. You can spot the serious climbers
cos they have 250kg breaking strain bootlaces..


...d

David Martin wrote:


Obviously it isn't ideal for ascending, but that doesn't mean it can't
be done ;-)

I could probably do SRT with a petzl stop and a figure eight (or a
couple of spare karabiners and a cows tail, or a spare sling, or...

Adaptability is the name of the game. You can spot the serious climbers
cos they have 250kg breaking strain bootlaces..

AFAIK apart from a prussik (sp?) knot the only useful bit of kit for
climbing a rope is a Croll (I only know of Petzl ones but there may be
others) or maybe a Shunt in extremis. You can't attach a fig8 or Stop
to a loaded rope.

MartinM wrote:
David Martin wrote:


Obviously it isn't ideal for ascending, but that doesn't mean it can't
be done ;-)

I could probably do SRT with a petzl stop and a figure eight (or a
couple of spare karabiners and a cows tail, or a spare sling, or...

Adaptability is the name of the game. You can spot the serious climbers
cos they have 250kg breaking strain bootlaces..

AFAIK apart from a prussik (sp?) knot the only useful bit of kit for
climbing a rope is a Croll (I only know of Petzl ones but there may be
others) or maybe a Shunt in extremis. You can't attach a fig8 or Stop
to a loaded rope.

You can attach a figure eight but not in the way you are thinking of..
You'd use a stop only as the lower of the two ascenders assuming there
is noone below you (ie rope not in tension.). There would probably be
better alternatives to hand anyway.

By far my favourite is a 4ft sling and an HMS karabiner. Clip the sling
in to the karabiner and then wrap around the back of the karabiner and
the rope, winding upwards. Clip into the free end. Much better than a
prussikk (sp?).

...d

David Martin wrote:
MartinM wrote:
David Martin wrote:


Obviously it isn't ideal for ascending, but that doesn't mean it can't
be done ;-)

I could probably do SRT with a petzl stop and a figure eight (or a
couple of spare karabiners and a cows tail, or a spare sling, or...

Adaptability is the name of the game. You can spot the serious climbers
cos they have 250kg breaking strain bootlaces..

AFAIK apart from a prussik (sp?) knot the only useful bit of kit for
climbing a rope is a Croll (I only know of Petzl ones but there may be
others) or maybe a Shunt in extremis. You can't attach a fig8 or Stop
to a loaded rope.

You can attach a figure eight but not in the way you are thinking of..
You'd use a stop only as the lower of the two ascenders assuming there
is noone below you (ie rope not in tension.). There would probably be
better alternatives to hand anyway.

By far my favourite is a 4ft sling and an HMS karabiner. Clip the sling
in to the karabiner and then wrap around the back of the karabiner and
the rope, winding upwards. Clip into the free end. Much better than a
prussikk (sp?).

there is nifty little thing Petzl have just brought out, basically just
one of the spiky ratchet thingies from a croll that clips to a krab and
makes an instant prusic (sp?) ideally you would have two buy you could
manage with one if you moved a fig8/Stop up below it. Only a few quid
and an essential bit of emergency kit if you don't have a full SRT rig.

http://www.fieldandtrek.com/cat_id/E...bloc-29507.htm

MartinM wrote:
there is nifty little thing Petzl have just brought out, basically just
one of the spiky ratchet thingies from a croll that clips to a krab and
makes an instant prusic (sp?) ideally you would have two buy you could
manage with one if you moved a fig8/Stop up below it. Only a few quid
and an essential bit of emergency kit if you don't have a full SRT rig.

Extra weight and no use for anything else.. It is perfectly possible to
use a normal climbing rack to do SRT, just takes a bit more ingenuity..
As it is perfectly possible to abseil without a specific abseil
device.

It is always useful to be able to 'make do' with what kit you have.

...d

"David Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...


MatSav wrote:

Incidentally, you'll NEVER get your bike UP with absailing equipment -
that's designed for going DOWN ;-)

Is that a challenge? ...such an
arrangement can easily be modified to work for going up as well as
down.. (says the bloke who has absailed using almost everything from
'classic' to the latest and greatest fancy bits..)...

Ahhh, "Classic" (aka "Crutch Screamer") method! I remember that from 25
years ago - a strategically placed rolled and folded newspaper to prevent
friction burns! Now, where's that Sudocrem (urc passim).

Of course, I see your point. My experience of climbing and abseiling is 25
years out of date! I presume you mean that a "descender" may be modified to
use as an "ascender"? What about a rack?

--
MatSav

MatSav wrote:
"David Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...


MatSav wrote:

Incidentally, you'll NEVER get your bike UP with absailing equipment -
that's designed for going DOWN ;-)

Is that a challenge? ...such an
arrangement can easily be modified to work for going up as well as
down.. (says the bloke who has absailed using almost everything from
'classic' to the latest and greatest fancy bits..)...

Ahhh, "Classic" (aka "Crutch Screamer") method! I remember that from 25
years ago - a strategically placed rolled and folded newspaper to prevent
friction burns! Now, where's that Sudocrem (urc passim).

That is the one ;-) Or the faster version where you dont bother with
the crotch but wrap the rope around your arms and wear a hole in the
jacket.

Of course, I see your point. My experience of climbing and abseiling is 25
years out of date! I presume you mean that a "descender" may be modified to
use as an "ascender"? What about a rack?

Climbing rack = full set of gear. caving rack = descender with multiple
bars (can be approximated using about 3 dozen karabiners.) In man cases
though it is easier to just make do with ordinary kit (sling and
karabiner, or just sling) instead.

The prussik knot is however a work of stan and shouldn't be used.

...d

--
MatSav