MartinM wrote:
there is nifty little thing Petzl have just brought out, basically just
one of the spiky ratchet thingies from a croll that clips to a krab and
makes an instant prusic (sp?) ideally you would have two buy you could
manage with one if you moved a fig8/Stop up below it. Only a few quid
and an essential bit of emergency kit if you don't have a full SRT rig.

Extra weight and no use for anything else.. It is perfectly possible to
use a normal climbing rack to do SRT, just takes a bit more ingenuity..
As it is perfectly possible to abseil without a specific abseil
device.

It is always useful to be able to 'make do' with what kit you have.

...d

David Martin wrote:
MartinM wrote:
there is nifty little thing Petzl have just brought out, basically just
one of the spiky ratchet thingies from a croll that clips to a krab and
makes an instant prusic (sp?) ideally you would have two buy you could
manage with one if you moved a fig8/Stop up below it. Only a few quid
and an essential bit of emergency kit if you don't have a full SRT rig.

Extra weight and no use for anything else.. It is perfectly possible to
use a normal climbing rack to do SRT, just takes a bit more ingenuity..
As it is perfectly possible to abseil without a specific abseil
device.

Sorry, I'm a caver not a climber, what is a climbing rack? (presumably
nothing like a descending rack)

As it is perfectly possible to abseil without a specific abseil
device.

again the only thing which springs to mind is an Italian hitch (not
recommended) what other methods are there?

BTW I am all in favour of improvising because e.g. incidents on non SRT
trips are exactly where you may have to.

"MartinM" wrote
Sorry, I'm a caver not a climber, what is a climbing rack? (presumably
nothing like a descending rack)

Collection of carabiners, hexes, stoppers, camming devices, slings, etc.,
carried by a climber to set anchors and place protection while climbing.
Varies from climber to climber and from climb to climb.

As it is perfectly possible to abseil without a specific abseil
device.

again the only thing which springs to mind is an Italian hitch (not
recommended) what other methods are there?

Dulfersitz: Straddle the ropes, bring the rope up and over one's shoulder
from behind, then across the front of the torso and down past the opposite
hip. Painful, not recommended, only works on low angle terrain, only done in
the direst of emergencies. I tried this once on a very short rappel, we were
descending from a long route in Yosemite Valley after bivying on the summit
of Sentinel Rock and my partner thought it would be faster than unpacking
the harnesses. Never again.

Foot brake: Rope is passed under the sole of one foot and over the instep of
the other foot, climber stands very upright and lowers himself with his
hands. I watched a free-soloist do this on the backside of one of the
Boulder Flatirons on my rope after my partner and I had descended. Neither I
or my partner had any interest in trying this novel technique ourselves.

2 carabiner brake: two carabiners laid end to end with enough overlap to
pass the ropes through. Rope is woven through the two overlapping carabiners
as it would be through a descending rack. This is best done with the funny
banana shaped locking carabiners that used to be favored by Czech and other
east European climbers. In fact, I first saw this done by a Czech climber
who proudly told me that this was "East European Technique".

4 carabiner brake: 2 carabiners are stacked on top of one another w/ gates
opposed and reversed. A bight of rope is fed through these carabiners, then
2 more are clipped across the first two to form a brake bar, as in a
descending rack. With enough carabiners, one can build as long a descending
rack as one wishes. Works best w/ oval carabiners. Very effective, very
dependable, every climber should know this technique.
--
mark

BTW I am all in favour of improvising because e.g. incidents on non SRT
trips are exactly where you may have to.

mark wrote:
other methods are there?


Dulfersitz: Straddle the ropes, bring the rope up and over one's shoulder
from behind, then across the front of the torso and down past the opposite
hip. Painful, not recommended, only works on low angle terrain, only done in
the direst of emergencies.

What do you mean? When I were a lad that was _the_ way you abseiled!
Been down all sorts of terrain in the Lakes, Scotland, Wales and Alps
that way. Bowline and two half hitches round the waist to tie on too.
None of these fancy harnesses and stuff

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...

Dulfersitz:

What do you mean? When I were a lad that was _the_ way you abseiled!
Been down all sorts of terrain in the Lakes, Scotland, Wales and Alps
that way. Bowline and two half hitches round the waist to tie on too.
None of these fancy harnesses and stuff

One can hardly claim a figure of 8 decender is 'hi tech' !!

Tony W wrote:
"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...


Dulfersitz:

What do you mean? When I were a lad that was _the_ way you abseiled!
Been down all sorts of terrain in the Lakes, Scotland, Wales and Alps
that way. Bowline and two half hitches round the waist to tie on too.
None of these fancy harnesses and stuff


One can hardly claim a figure of 8 decender is 'hi tech' !!


I didn't but neither has it always been around and people somehow
managed to abseil without it before it existed


--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

mark wrote:

2 carabiner brake: two carabiners laid end to end with enough overlap to
pass the ropes through. Rope is woven through the two overlapping carabiners
as it would be through a descending rack. This is best done with the funny
banana shaped locking carabiners that used to be favored by Czech and other
east European climbers. In fact, I first saw this done by a Czech climber
who proudly told me that this was "East European Technique".

Sounds a bit like an alpine clutch.. I have abseiled on a Munther
hitch before which is a variation. Alpine clutch: two stacked/opposed
carabiners clipped in to harness. Rope goes throug both then wraps
round and goes through one.

Munther hitch is nearly a clove hitch.

4 carabiner brake: 2 carabiners are stacked on top of one another w/ gates
opposed and reversed. A bight of rope is fed through these carabiners, then
2 more are clipped across the first two to form a brake bar, as in a
descending rack. With enough carabiners, one can build as long a descending
rack as one wishes. Works best w/ oval carabiners. Very effective, very
dependable, every climber should know this technique.


--
mark

BTW I am all in favour of improvising because e.g. incidents on non SRT
trips are exactly where you may have to.


Indeed..

...d

mark wrote:
"MartinM" wrote

Dulfersitz: Straddle the ropes, bring the rope up and over one's shoulder
from behind, then across the front of the torso and down past the opposite
hip. Painful, not recommended, only works on low angle terrain, only done in
the direst of emergencies. I tried this once on a very short rappel, we were
descending from a long route in Yosemite Valley after bivying on the summit
of Sentinel Rock and my partner thought it would be faster than unpacking
the harnesses. Never again.

What is the technique where you stand with arms outstretched, with the
rope wrapped once (twice?) round each arm? I've seen it done but I'm
not a climber :-)

R.

Richard .address.uk
wrote in :

What is the technique where you stand with arms outstretched, with the
rope wrapped once (twice?) round each arm? I've seen it done but I'm
not a climber :-)

Crucifixion?

In message .com
"MartinM" wrote:



David Martin wrote:

As it is perfectly possible to abseil without a specific abseil
device.

again the only thing which springs to mind is an Italian hitch (not
recommended) what other methods are there?

I have once abseiled on an Italian hitch, just the once about 15-20 feet to
try it out. I can say it is not something I would like to do again.

If you are silly enough to try it, get someone on the ground to hold the
rope just in case.

Martin.

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