"Mizter T" wrote

Most interesting. But what is the line in a tunnel that appears to lead
from Holdborn Viaduct Low-level station under Smithfields meat market
to Aldersgate (now Barbican) station?

This spur was opened in 1871, and the LCDR agreed with the Metropolitan to
run at least 80 trains a day over it into Moorgate Street. These trains
usually ran empty, as the main business district was south of Moorgate
Street, and passengers found it quicker to leave the train at Ludgate Hill
(or Snow Hill) and walk to their offices. These trains were withdrawn from 3
April 1916, after which the spur was abandoned.

Peter

"Mizter T" wrote

And where was Snow Hill station - was it located under Holborn Viaduct
station?

Yes - opened 1 August 1874, renamed Holborn Viaduct (Low Level) 1 May 1912,
closed 1 June 1916. Apparently until around 1960 it was possible to push on
a unlocked door on the concourse of Holborn Viaduct, descend some dark
steps, and end up on the disused platfroms of teh Low Level station. There
was also an entrance from the north side of Holborn Viaduct (street0.

Peter

Jock Mackirdy wrote:
In article .com,
Mizter T wrote:
When I say Holdborn I of course mean Holborn!

What is left of this line, if anything?

Not a lot, probably.

Next time I'm going through the Snow Hill tunnels I'll have a peek,
though I probably won't see anything. As it was all underground I doubt
exploring the surface by foot will bear any fruits.

I'm especially intrigued by the Smithfield GW goods station, which I
presume was under the meat market itself. I've also heard of a rowdy
boozer located in the bowels of the market, patronised by the market
workers, which if it's still open I might try and explore when I'm
feeling brave!

And where was Snow Hill station - was it located under Holborn Viaduct
station?

No, North of Holborn Viaduct (the road) but before the east-facing
junction to Smithfield market. The incline ran on the west side of
Holborn Viaduct station and was used by Thameslink trains before the
low-level line and City Thameslink station were built. There is a road
called Snow Hill. The station was underneath the 1960s office buildings
south of the junction of Snow Hill and Farringdon Street (up to the early
90's used by BT but probably gone now).

Ah, now I see it! Snow Hill station is marked on the old map.

Peter Masson wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote

And where was Snow Hill station - was it located under Holborn Viaduct
station?

Yes - opened 1 August 1874, renamed Holborn Viaduct (Low Level) 1 May 1912,
closed 1 June 1916. Apparently until around 1960 it was possible to push on
a unlocked door on the concourse of Holborn Viaduct, descend some dark
steps, and end up on the disused platfroms of teh Low Level station. There
was also an entrance from the north side of Holborn Viaduct (street0.

Peter

Thanks to both Peter and Jock for your replies.

The seemingly contradictory answers from Peter and from Jock can, I
think, easily be reconciled. The bulk of the Snow Hill station may have
been to the north of Holborn Viaduct (the road) and/or the main surface
level entrance was located there, but there was access from Holborn
Viaduct (high level) station. Or perhaps that access (i.e. the stairway
you speak of) was added later, maybe when Snow Hill was renamed Holborn
Viaduct Low-level.

I though I had read of the existance of a Holborn Viaduct Low-level
station but couldn't remember. The very name sounds slightly ridiculous
- a station name that contains both the phrase *low-level* + *viaduct*
- but then one must remember that the viaduct in question is of course
Holborn Viaduct (the road), not the railway viaduct.

Peter Masson wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote

Most interesting. But what is the line in a tunnel that appears to lead
from Holdborn Viaduct Low-level station under Smithfields meat market
to Aldersgate (now Barbican) station?

This spur was opened in 1871, and the LCDR agreed with the Metropolitan to
run at least 80 trains a day over it into Moorgate Street. These trains
usually ran empty, as the main business district was south of Moorgate
Street, and passengers found it quicker to leave the train at Ludgate Hill
(or Snow Hill) and walk to their offices. These trains were withdrawn from 3
April 1916, after which the spur was abandoned.

Peter

Fascinating, thanks for the details. I haven't heard of this spur
mentioned anywhere else, it seems it's largely been forgotten about.

On 23 Jul 2005 07:58:26 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

Jock Mackirdy wrote:
In article .com,
Mizter T wrote:

What is left of this line, if anything?

Not a lot, probably.

Next time I'm going through the Snow Hill tunnels I'll have a peek,
though I probably won't see anything.

There are some remains of the platforms planted with pillars
supporting the oiffices above.

As it was all underground I doubt
exploring the surface by foot will.....

Correct!

I'm especially intrigued by the Smithfield GW goods station, which I
presume was under the meat market itself.

It is now an underground car park; its approach ramp from West
Smithfield is that built for the goods station.

I've also heard of a rowdy
boozer located in the bowels of the market, patronised by the market
workers, which if it's still open I might try and explore when I'm
feeling brave!

Dunno about that - I have never dared to explore the car park or had
need to use it.

--
Peter Lawrence

Mizter T wrote:
Peter Masson wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote

And where was Snow Hill station - was it located under Holborn Viaduct
station?

Yes - opened 1 August 1874, renamed Holborn Viaduct (Low Level) 1 May 1912,
closed 1 June 1916. Apparently until around 1960 it was possible to push on
a unlocked door on the concourse of Holborn Viaduct, descend some dark
steps, and end up on the disused platfroms of teh Low Level station. There
was also an entrance from the north side of Holborn Viaduct (street0.

Peter

Thanks to both Peter and Jock for your replies.

The seemingly contradictory answers from Peter and from Jock can, I
think, easily be reconciled. The bulk of the Snow Hill station may have
been to the north of Holborn Viaduct (the road) and/or the main surface
level entrance was located there, but there was access from Holborn
Viaduct (high level) station. Or perhaps that access (i.e. the stairway
you speak of) was added later, maybe when Snow Hill was renamed Holborn
Viaduct Low-level.

I though I had read of the existance of a Holborn Viaduct Low-level
station but couldn't remember. The very name sounds slightly ridiculous
- a station name that contains both the phrase *low-level* + *viaduct*
- but then one must remember that the viaduct in question is of course
Holborn Viaduct (the road), not the railway viaduct.


Was any of it really underground, as opposed to under/between
buildings, or between buildings and the Fleet river cutting?

Going from Blackfriars to City Thameslink now, it doesn't seem to me
that the trackbed goes as far down as the adjacent Farringdon Road,
although it's difficult do judge. That is, is the "underground"
station actually higher than ground level, depending on which road you
take the ground to be level with?

In article . com, Mig wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

Was any of it really underground, as opposed to under/between
buildings, or between buildings and the Fleet river cutting?

It all depends what you mean by underground and what you take as the original
ground level. Going from Farringdon southwards you are clearly at or just below
basement level, but then so is much of the cut and cover Underground network. It
was Cardinal House whose supporting piers pierced the Snow Hill platforms. The
line then rose steeply to join the high level Holborn Viaduct route and cross
Ludgate Hill on the bridge which was subsequently removed. When BR ran a DC test
train from the Blackfriars direction into Farringdon, about 9 months before the
launch of Thameslink, I was able to catch glimpses of it between the buildings.

Going from Blackfriars to City Thameslink now, it doesn't seem to me
that the trackbed goes as far down as the adjacent Farringdon Road,
although it's difficult do judge. That is, is the "underground"
station actually higher than ground level, depending on which road you
take the ground to be level with?

Bearing in mind that the lid of the City Thameslink tunnel has buildings sitting
on it (and ISTR seeing the lid was below the level of Farringdon Road), I think
the line is virtually level from Farringdon to the start of the "new" incline and
the relocated bridge over Queen Victoria Street. Modern street levels are no real
guide, since Farringdon Road sits on top of the Fleet River and the area around
Smithfield Market has been heavily modified over time.

--

Jock Mackirdy
Bedford

In message , at 21:49:40 on Sat, 23
Jul 2005, Jock Mackirdy remarked:
Bearing in mind that the lid of the City Thameslink tunnel has buildings sitting
on it (and ISTR seeing the lid was below the level of Farringdon Road), I think
the line is virtually level from Farringdon to the start of the "new" incline and
the relocated bridge over Queen Victoria Street.

Isn't there a slight incline northbound out of City Thameslink?

Modern street levels are no real guide, since Farringdon Road sits on
top of the Fleet River and the area around Smithfield Market has been
heavily modified over time.

On the other hand, I'd be surprised if Fleet St has changed level much,
and that continues across Ludgate Circus to Ludgate Hill. Today the line
goes under Ludgate Hill (City Thameslink Station is underneath and
accessed by escalators). Previously, the line went over Ludgate Hill, of
course.
--
Roland Perry

On 23 Jul 2005 07:58:26 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:


I'm especially intrigued by the Smithfield GW goods station, which I
presume was under the meat market itself. I've also heard of a rowdy
boozer located in the bowels of the market, patronised by the market
workers, which if it's still open I might try and explore when I'm
feeling brave!


Doesnt do a great breakfast, the one at the Fox and Anchor is better.



greg
--
"Access to a waiting list is not access to health care"