Yes it is a capacity problem. It is planned to push 24 trains per
hour each direction through the tunnel. 18 of those will be via London
Bridge, the other 6 obviously via The Elephant. There are no pathways
available for SET trains that currently terminate at Blackfriars. And
those that go through the core will be of the New Thameslink Franchise
(the presnt Thamelsink merged with WAGN).




On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:18:44 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 04:34:37 on
Wed, 10 Aug 2005, asdf remarked:
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

Why not make them part of the TL2K thing? Instead of terminating at
Blackfriars, send them through the tunnels and on to somewhere like
Welwyn, Hertford or Letchworth.

Exactly. Send all the services (from the Elephant & Castle direction)
that currently terminate at Blackfriars through the tunnel to
Farringdon and beyond. Terminate an equivalent number of services from
the London Bridge direction at Blackfriars. Seems a far more sensible
and sane solution than ripping apart the entire station.

Then you wouldn't get the through services from Gatwick (and other
planned destinations) to north of the river, as they mainly go via
London Bridge.

On the other hand, adding some of the "via elephant" destinations to the
through trains doesn't seem too much of an issue, although maybe there's
not the capacity through the tunnels for them.


Life without sex just isn't life.
Make love not war!

In message , at 08:19:40 on
Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Christine remarked:
those that go through the core will be of the New Thameslink Franchise
(the presnt Thamelsink merged with WAGN).

I see that this is creaking into existence once more (it's only been
postponed three times already). Will trains from the GN lines continue
to terminate at Kings Cross, until the Thameslink works are complete, or
will some of them start going through?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

I see that this is creaking into existence once more (it's only been
postponed three times already). Will trains from the GN lines continue
to terminate at Kings Cross, until the Thameslink works are complete, or
will some of them start going through?

The map on the National Express Group website shows the GN and existing
Thameslink routes as continuing to be self-contained, albeit coming
tantalisingly close at KX and Moorgate:

http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/...hise_route.pdf

In message . com, at
03:18:33 on Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Rupert Candy
remarked:
I see that this is creaking into existence once more (it's only been
postponed three times already). Will trains from the GN lines continue
to terminate at Kings Cross, until the Thameslink works are complete, or
will some of them start going through?

The map on the National Express Group website shows the GN and existing
Thameslink routes as continuing to be self-contained, albeit coming
tantalisingly close at KX and Moorgate:

And the spur from Farringdon to Moorgate will, of course, be one of the
first casualties when they start building Thameslink2.5k

http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/...hise_route.pdf

Is this the only rail franchise with discontinuous routes?
--
Roland Perry

"Rupert Candy" wrote in message
ups.com...

Roland Perry wrote:

I see that this is creaking into existence once more (it's only been
postponed three times already). Will trains from the GN lines continue
to terminate at Kings Cross, until the Thameslink works are complete, or
will some of them start going through?

The map on the National Express Group website shows the GN and existing
Thameslink routes as continuing to be self-contained, albeit coming
tantalisingly close at KX and Moorgate:

Until new stock is ordered they are unlikely to start running through. The
Class 365s, currently used by WAGN, do not have end-doors for use in
emergencies (like the 319s do), which is a requirement for the tunnel
sections. Thameslink have been making noises about replacement stock for the
franchise which would, presumably, occur when the GN lines are absorbed.

In message , at 14:05:53 on
Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Jack Taylor remarked:
I see that this is creaking into existence once more (it's only been
postponed three times already). Will trains from the GN lines continue
to terminate at Kings Cross, until the Thameslink works are complete, or
will some of them start going through?

The map on the National Express Group website shows the GN and existing
Thameslink routes as continuing to be self-contained, albeit coming
tantalisingly close at KX and Moorgate:

Until new stock is ordered they are unlikely to start running through. The
Class 365s, currently used by WAGN, do not have end-doors for use in
emergencies (like the 319s do), which is a requirement for the tunnel
sections. Thameslink have been making noises about replacement stock for the
franchise which would, presumably, occur when the GN lines are absorbed.

But WAGN have many 317s as well. They could run the stoppers, which tend
to be 317s [during the week, at least; after all, the people who get the
stoppers are second class citizens and don't deserve the newer stock]
through, and have the fasts shuttling back at KX.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
.uk...

But WAGN have many 317s as well. They could run the stoppers, which tend
to be 317s [during the week, at least; after all, the people who get the
stoppers are second class citizens and don't deserve the newer stock]
through, and have the fasts shuttling back at KX.

Unfortunately the 317s are not dual-voltage so, although they are permitted
through the tunnels, they wouldn't get much further than Farringdon (at
present the limit of 25kV ac catenary, although City Thameslink is proposed
to be the changeover point under TL2000).

In article , Jack Taylor
writes
Until new stock is ordered they are unlikely to start running through. The
Class 365s, currently used by WAGN, do not have end-doors for use in
emergencies (like the 319s do), which is a requirement for the tunnel
sections.

The tunnels are all double-track, aren't they? Apart from the new
(short) links.

365s already run through single-track tunnels between Ally Pally and
Potters Bar.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...

The tunnels are all double-track, aren't they? Apart from the new
(short) links.

365s already run through single-track tunnels between Ally Pally and
Potters Bar.

Agreed. However, when the 319s were ordered they were originally designed
without the end doors. The design was required to be modified to allow for
passengers to be detrained in emergency, using front and rear end doors, in
the tunnels under St P/KX. Presumably any following stock will be subject to
the same requirement. I suspect that, as previous posters have suggested,
this may be to do with clearances in the tunnels. I'll have to trawl through
some 1988/1989 "Modern Railways" when I get the chance!

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:47:53 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:


"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...

The tunnels are all double-track, aren't they? Apart from the new
(short) links.

365s already run through single-track tunnels between Ally Pally and
Potters Bar.

Agreed. However, when the 319s were ordered they were originally designed
without the end doors. The design was required to be modified to allow for
passengers to be detrained in emergency, using front and rear end doors, in
the tunnels under St P/KX. Presumably any following stock will be subject to
the same requirement. I suspect that, as previous posters have suggested,
this may be to do with clearances in the tunnels. I'll have to trawl through
some 1988/1989 "Modern Railways" when I get the chance!


Yes 365s do run through single bore tunnels on the East Coast section,
however in an emergency, it is possible to exit via side doors within
the tunnel. Shakespeare Cliff Tunnel in Kent is single bore and can
only have trains with ends doors through it. In this case, it is
beause the tunnel is very tight to gauge and there is no way anyone
could exit through side doors.

Presumably such tight to gauge tunnels exist on the section of line
between Kentish Town and Farringdon. The section beyond here to
Blackfriars, doesn't since Class 465s, the fore runners too 365s, run
to Smithfield Sidings/City Thameslink.



Life without sex just isn't life.
Make love not war!