Dave Liney wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:50:21 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I'm a bit confused here. Will the 7DTC come on a free Oyster card

Yes, if you don't have one already or want an extra one (although they
seem to be reserving the right to start charging the £3 deposit again
in the future).


(snip)

So Rolan, you've no need for another Oyster card, simply put a 7DTC
onto the one you have already. If you want a monthly or longer season
on your Oyster card then it does need to be registered.

But will they give him his £3 back when he puts his first 7DTC on it?

No. Whilst I see your logic, that's not how things will work. If he
wants his £3 back then he'll have to hand back (or in Oyster speak
'surrender') his Oyster card.

The central database will keep a record of whether a card had a £3
deposit paid on it, so TfL will not be handing out £3 deposits to
people who surrender their Oyster cards if those people never paid a
deposit on the first place - i.e. if they'd got a depositless Oyster
card as a result of buying a season Travelcard, then hand it back, they
won't get £3 given to them.

I've not got one but presumably you got a receipt for your £3 which
you'd have to hand back with the Oyster card to get the £3.

I'm not entirely sure of the proper proceedure for surrendering an
Oyster card. I did it once with a registered Oyster card at a Tube
station and was given my £3 back, and the ticket clerk didn't event
ask me for my security phrase - which was not good, as I could've been
anyone making a quick £3 from a lost card found in the street. That
was in the early days of Oyster when I'm not sure that everyone knew
the correct proceedures to follow.

However I've tried to do it since with an unregistered and been told I
need to either ring the helpline, or write to Oyster customer services
who'll then send a cheque back. If this is the case then those fearful
of 'Big Brother' who wish to keep their personal details dissasociated
from their unregistered Oyster card travel record held on the database
may not ever want to surrender their card, as it would seem that to
claim the £3 deposit back you'll need to provide your personal
details. (It should be noted that the individual travel record is not
kept for longer than three months IIRC.)

In message .com, at
15:02:34 on Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Dave Liney remarked:
So Rolan, you've no need for another Oyster card, simply put a 7DTC
onto the one you have already. If you want a monthly or longer season
on your Oyster card then it does need to be registered.

But will they give him his £3 back when he puts his first 7DTC on it?

I doubt it.

I've not got one but presumably you got a receipt for your £3 which
you'd have to hand back with the Oyster card to get the £3.

I've had the Oyster since they first came out, so no chance I've still
got a receipt.

Would the "free" 7DTC Oyster also be a pre-pay, for ad-hoc use later?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry typed


In message .com, at
15:02:34 on Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Dave Liney remarked:
So Rolan, you've no need for another Oyster card, simply put a 7DTC
onto the one you have already. If you want a monthly or longer season
on your Oyster card then it does need to be registered.

But will they give him his £3 back when he puts his first 7DTC on it?

I doubt it.

I've not got one but presumably you got a receipt for your £3 which
you'd have to hand back with the Oyster card to get the £3.

I've had the Oyster since they first came out, so no chance I've still
got a receipt.

Would the "free" 7DTC Oyster also be a pre-pay, for ad-hoc use later?

Yes, if you add some PrePay. AIUI Oyster cards have three 'channels' so
you load one channel with a Season ticket and another with PrePay.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Roland Perry wrote:

Would the "free" 7DTC Oyster also be a pre-pay, for ad-hoc use later?


Every Oyster has pre-pay enabled, whether bought for pre-pay or
acquired to hold a Travelcard.

Until you add some credit to it (or use it for a ticket extension to a
Travelcard loaded on it), the balance will be £0.00.

Roland Perry wrote:
I've not got one but presumably you got a receipt for your £3 which
you'd have to hand back with the Oyster card to get the £3.

I've had the Oyster since they first came out, so no chance I've still
got a receipt.

I really don't think the lack of receipt would be a problem. You're not
told at the time that you must keep your receipt. If anyone really does
want to surrender their Oyster card and claim their £3 back, call
Oyster customer services on 0845 330 9876 between 8am and 8pm.

Would the "free" 7DTC Oyster also be a pre-pay, for ad-hoc use later?

As Scotboy and Helen have said elsewhere in their replies, *any* Oyster
card is good to go for Pre Pay. (Any *unregistered* Oyster card is also
good to go for any 7DTC or 7 Day Buss Pass).

However I'm going to attempt to read between the lines, and maybe read
your mind! If you need a 7DTC, and you also might find it handy having
another Oyster card around (perhaps to give to a friend or visitor),
then buy a 7DTC on an unregistered Oyster card. After the 7DTC has
expired, the Oyster card can be used by, and permanently given to,
whoever you want for use with Pre Pay, or could even be loaded with
another 7DTC or 7 Day Buss Pass.

These posters have appeared at such far flung locations such as Three
Bridges and Portsmouth Harbour. Is there much point in advertising
Oyster this far away from the capital?

They're advertising at Wagn stations, including Hatfield, and of
course, you can't get an Oyster issued or accepted there!

At the same time that the posters appeared, Wagn has put a notice up on
their website;

----
"Please note that Oyster "Pre Pay" can only be used to pay for
journeys on Wagn services between Finsbury Park and Kings
Cross/Moorgate.
click link to get to...

Transport for London's Oyster Card can be used in two ways:

As a Travelcard Season Ticket valid for one or more Travelcard Zones.
This can be used for travel between any mainline station within the
Zones and Dates for which the Oyster Travelcard is valid.

Please note that the Travelcard Area comprises 6 Zones and the Boundary
of Zone 6 for Wagn is Hadley Wood and Crews Hill.

As pre-payment for any journey on London Underground, London Buses and
DLR, and for a limited number of main line rail journeys. Journeys on
Wagn that can be made using "pre-pay" are those between Finsbury
Park and Kings Cross/Moorgate and between intermediate stations on
these routes.

"Pre-pay" cannot be used to pay for journeys north of Finsbury Park
on Wagn services. Tickets for journeys on Wagn services to stations
north of Finsbury Park must be purchased before leaving Finsbury Park."
----

Now, as it happens this means two things;

1) It means there's a good chance people have been asking Wagn about
Oyster, and it may eventually mean they decide it's a good idea to
start accepting/issuing them.

2) It also tells people that a Zone 1-6 Oyster will work to Hadley Wood
or Crews Hill, so it's possible (and significantly cheaper) to get an
Oyster for that part of the journey, and a standard season for the
boundary to your chosen station, than buy a Wagn season for the whole
thing. End result; same Gold Card discounts on other travel and a much
cheaper ticket. The only loss; 8 complimentary first class tickets and
a 20% discount at mainline stations (which is irrelevant, as showing
ANY Gold Card still gets you 20% off!).

Jonathan

(Benefits that will be much more beneficial when National Rail is eventually
fully incorporated into the Pre Pay system, but that will only happen
when the train companies stop dragging their feet.)

We had a visit from TFL to show some new things in their Journey
Planner (I write for a technology magazine) and they said they had
offered to pay and install all the equipment for all the TOCs (in fact,
the person was as frustrated as me because he commutes using Southern,
and therefore can't even use an Oyster himself!). He says everything is
ready to go, but I do wonder if there's a little bit more to it than
that?

I understand the TOCs are worried about losing money, but there must be
other reasons? In the long run, they will lose anyway because once it's
clear to many people (more than a handful of people here and there)
that it's cheaper to buy an Oyster season and then 'tag on' a simple
station-station return on top with the TOC, they'll be losing out big
time.

Jonathan

On 25 Aug 2005 16:36:33 -0700, wrote:

2) It also tells people that a Zone 1-6 Oyster will work to Hadley Wood
or Crews Hill, so it's possible (and significantly cheaper) to get an
Oyster for that part of the journey, and a standard season for the
boundary to your chosen station,

Cheaper? How did you work that one out?

If it's not significantly more expensive I'll eat my hat.

asdf wrote:
On 25 Aug 2005 16:36:33 -0700, wrote:

2) It also tells people that a Zone 1-6 Oyster will work to Hadley Wood
or Crews Hill, so it's possible (and significantly cheaper) to get an
Oyster for that part of the journey, and a standard season for the
boundary to your chosen station,

Cheaper? How did you work that one out?

If it's not significantly more expensive I'll eat my hat.

You has better get chomping you old goat!

Monthly season prices

Stevenage - Hadley Wood £142.50
Travelcard - All Zones £151.70
Total £294.20

Stevenage - R1256 £311.10

A saving of £16.90

All the above info has been taken from the WAGN ticket sales website
(you need to register first but that only takes a mo), and does not
take account of any further discounts required under the Passengers
Charter (which can be up to 10%) as these are only available to those
renewing their tickets. The All Zones Travelcard price is thus
obviously the same as if you were to buy it on an Oyster card at a TfL
outlet. With a Passengers Charter discount it would thus be even
cheaper to buy the two seperate tickets from WAGN, rather than have the
All Zones Travelcard on Oyster as Jonathan suggested.

I must say I also found it surprising that the price would work out
cheaper than if it was purchased as a single ticket. It would appear to
be counter-intuitive.

*However* I am unclear as to whether it would be valid to use two
seperate season tickets on a train that did not stop at Hadley Wood -
and I'm not sure any Stevenage London trains do actually stop there (a
quick look at a timetable suggests not). Rather than cause mass
confusion I've thus posted a query asking the ticketing experts over at
uk.railway to clear up any confusion (the thread is entitled "Allowed
to combine season tickets?"). Once I get a definitive answer on that
issue then we'll know whether Jonathan's two ticket hypothesis is
correct or not. And whether asdf needs to start masticating on a bowler
or not.

On 25 Aug 2005 18:51:54 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

You has better get chomping you old goat!

You're absolutely right. Can't argue with those figures.

[fx: sound of munching on headgear]

*However* I am unclear as to whether it would be valid to use two
seperate season tickets on a train that did not stop at Hadley Wood -
and I'm not sure any Stevenage London trains do actually stop there (a
quick look at a timetable suggests not).

Ah, now this is the sting in the tail. The rule you are looking for is
number 17 at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/conditions.htm .

Unfortunately I'm not sure whether Travelcards count as "season
tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport
executive or local authority" which would seem to be the deciding
issue...

Incidentally, there is a similar saving to be made by buying separate
Welwyn GC - Hadley Wood and Z1-6 Travelcard seasons, and there *are*
trains from WGC that stop at Hadley Wood, so from there at least, a
saving could be made without having to change trains (though obviously
having to travel on a stopper would still increase your journey time).