On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:00:03 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper
travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount.

What discount?

On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train
company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to
actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.)

James Farrar wrote:
On 24 Aug 2005 07:48:42 -0700, "Paul"
wrote:

if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper
travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount.

What discount?

I'm no expert, but this is my understanding of the Passengers Charter
discount. It's offered on monthly or longer season ticket *renewals* if
punctuality or reliability over the past 12 months has been below
targets.

This can be worth a 5% or 10% discount.

Whilst I'm sure most passengers would prefer the railway to run on or
above the targets, the discount provides some recompense when things
aren't running well, plus an incentive to the train company to stop
losing money and get their act in order.

A few webpages I've found about the Passengers Charter on different TOC
websites:

http://www.thameslink.co.uk/main.php?page_id=33
http://www.thameslink.co.uk/main.php?page_id=101

http://www.setrains.co.uk/SETrains/C...engersCharter/

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWT...rs+Charter.htm

http://www.southernrailway.com/about...ormation.shtml

wrote in message
ups.com...
I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the
black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from
A-to-B recorded?

I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say
Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary
Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone
1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do; i know that many people have
switched back to paper tickets because Oyster charged them an extra £3.20 a
day.

When weeklies change to Oyster I think these people will simply buy their
weeklies from NR stations.

In article ,
Alan OBrien wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the
black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from
A-to-B recorded?

I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say
Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary
Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone
1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do;

They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection
crowd get ahold of them.

(Unless they - say - use the NLL to avoid zone 1 properly, but then
the oyster card won't charge them)

--
Mike Bristow - really a very good driver

I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say
Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary
Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone
1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do;

They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection
crowd get ahold of them.

(Unless they - say - use the NLL to avoid zone 1 properly, but then
the oyster card won't charge them)

On the day prepay launched enough people with season tickets accrued
negative balances for the media to report it as a bug.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3422051.stm

There was of course no bug. All of those people did not have zone 1 on their
travelcards and for the first time the system was able to catch them out.

asdf wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:00:03 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper
travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount.

What discount?

On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train
company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to
actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.)

Exactly. Which is why there is no incentive for me to get an Oyster
travelcard!

--
Paul

On 25 Aug 2005 03:24:34 -0700, "Paul"
wrote:

if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper
travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount.

What discount?

On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train
company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to
actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.)

Exactly. Which is why there is no incentive for me to get an Oyster
travelcard!

South West Trains (don't know about other TOCs) now give the discount
on Oyster travelcards, provided you buy it from them.

Incidentally, which are the best (i.e. worst performing!) train
companies to buy Travelcard seasons from?

Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
Alan OBrien wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the
black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from
A-to-B recorded?

I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say
Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary
Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone
1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do;

They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection
crowd get ahold of them.

They shouldn't do it, as it is fare evasion, but just because you
shouldn't do it doesn't mean you can't do it! I know someone who has
done this, I don't approve of it but I know it can be done. I've
overheard someone else being caught doing it by RP staff when changing
Tube lines at Zone 1 interchange stations ("I though my ticket included
Zone 1" - "No sir it doesn't" etc etc).

As RP staff rarely/never board trains, then there are perhaps some
whose regular journey on the same Tube train (e.g. from Shepherds Bush
to Mile End on the Cental Line) are not likely to be caught either.

The concentric zones in London are broadly a very good idea, but it has
an inherent assumption that many people will travel on radial routes to
the main attraction - Zone 1.

Because of this and other notions about 'Big Brother watching over us'
some people may wish to avoid Oyster. I supsect that some NR stations
that are near Tube stations may see a slight rise in the number of
7DTC's sold, but no subsequent increase in passenger traffic.

TKD wrote:
I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say
Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary
Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone
1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do;

They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection
crowd get ahold of them.

(Unless they - say - use the NLL to avoid zone 1 properly, but then
the oyster card won't charge them)

On the day prepay launched enough people with season tickets accrued
negative balances for the media to report it as a bug.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3422051.stm

There was of course no bug. All of those people did not have zone 1 on their
travelcards and for the first time the system was able to catch them out.

How interesting. I'd heard those reports and kind of dismissed them as
rubbish journalism stirred up by the Lib Dem candidate for Mayor, Simon
Hughes, who never missed a chance for a dig at the Mayor Ken and didn't
let such trivial things as facts get in the way!

That's fascinating to hear the real reason behind the 'Oyster bugs' was
the system working properly (and catching people out) rather than a
system problem. It's not called a smartcard for no reason at all! Is
your information from an authoritative source?

asdf wrote:
On 25 Aug 2005 03:24:34 -0700, "Paul"
wrote:

if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper
travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount.

What discount?

On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train
company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to
actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.)

Exactly. Which is why there is no incentive for me to get an Oyster
travelcard!

South West Trains (don't know about other TOCs) now give the discount
on Oyster travelcards, provided you buy it from them.

I think it's only SWT and Silverlink that issue Oyster cards (and sell
tickets to be loaded to Oyster cards), though only at some stations.

I understand Silverlink issues Oyster at it's stations served by the
Bakerloo line, which makes a lot of sense.

I've heard SWT issues Oyster at Surbiton but I'd like to know where
else this happens. (AIUI all the Oyster issuing SWT stations are in the
zones as you can't get any out-of-London Travelcard seasons on Oyster,
only on printed tickets.)

I reckon SWT was possibly losong some of it's sales to TfL outlets as
it's passengers wanted to take advantage of the benefits of Oyster/
wanted to have the flashy new Oyster card.

Can anyone name any other NR TOCs that issue Oyster?

Incidentally, which are the best (i.e. worst performing!) train
companies to buy Travelcard seasons from?

Also a question I'd like answered! One could save oneself some money
here, and I'm sure a few people do already.