On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:35:27 +0100, Terry Harper wrote:

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:04:59 +0100, steve wrote:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:33:56 +0100, Martin Underwood wrote:

OK. Oxford railway station is about 10 minutes' walk into the city
centre (taking the centre to be Carfax crossroads). If his office is in
the centre, there are buses from the station or from the bus stops
nearby near the Jam Factory / Said Business School. There may also be
buses from here to other parts of Oxford; failing that it may be
necessary to change at Gloucester Green bus station off George Street.

Gloucester Green is easy walking distance from the station.

Having looked at the latest Oxford Bus Co timetables, I see that only the
14/14A, and 5/5A serve the station and any point west of Magdalen Street
or Queen Street nowadays. The Botley Road services, Park & Ride and
UniversityBus go past on the main road, of course. The 14 is a half-hourly
service, so in its absence a 5 to Carfax and a walk down the Cornmarket to
Magdalen Street is the best way of heading north.

Gloucester Green only gives you out-of-town buses.

I was more commenting on the suggestion of getting a bus to Gloucester
Green station from the rail station.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:15:49 +0100, steve
wrote:

I was more commenting on the suggestion of getting a bus to Gloucester
Green station from the rail station.

The X5 twice an hour, though I don't know if they allow such short
journeys on what is basically a regional coach service.

That aside, it really isn't *that* far. Unless I had lots of luggage
(in which case there are plenty of taxis to hand) I'd walk.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:15:49 +0100, steve
wrote:

I was more commenting on the suggestion of getting a bus to Gloucester
Green station from the rail station.

The X5 twice an hour, though I don't know if they allow such short
journeys on what is basically a regional coach service.

That aside, it really isn't *that* far. Unless I had lots of luggage
(in which case there are plenty of taxis to hand) I'd walk.

Yes, it's not that far from the railway station to Gloucester Green. And
it's not as if you have to wait long to cross Hythe Bridge Street near the
Worcester Street car park: the pedestrian lights on the bend seem to spend
more time at green for pedestrians than green for cars :-(

I can walk right from Binsey Lane (free one hour parking or even 24 hour
parking if you're lucky) to the Library in about 15 minutes - but then I
walk fast!

Has Gloucester Green always been just for long-distance buses or did
all/most buses call there at one time. For some reason, the concept of
having one central place where you can guarantee all buses will stop seems
to have fallen out of favour in most towns these days.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:40:08 +0100, "Martin Underwood" a@b wrote:

Has Gloucester Green always been just for long-distance buses or did
all/most buses call there at one time. For some reason, the concept of
having one central place where you can guarantee all buses will stop seems
to have fallen out of favour in most towns these days.

I don't really know, I'm not *that* familiar with buses in the Oxford
area other than the X5 and Oxford Tube. The bus station does appear
to be mainly (but not exclusively) Stagecoach, however...

As to why bus stations have fallen out of favour, I don't know. In
Milton Keynes' case there is a good reason in that the centre is so
dispersed that all buses run the length of it on a single route (which
is useful in itself), and it was decided that stopping in front of the
railway station was more sensible than in the bus station which is a
short walk away.

The MK bus station remains as a staff layover point/cafe, a skate park
and a handy place to use as a meeting place if you want to run your
own private coach to somewhere.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

I did this journey every day for 3 years!

It really does so come down to where in Oxford they are going to and
where in London exactly they are coming from. Being in Paddington means
(I think!) that you are not that handy for either main bus service
(Oxford Tube and X90). The bus from central London to the Headington
roundabout takes 90 mins (prob another 10 mins in to Oxford at least)
and IMHO is not viable: furthermore the cost is high if a travelcard is
also needed. As for bus lanes: there are some and they do help, but in
the run in to Thornhill P&R, you will still be sitting on the bus for
up to 20 mins very regularly.

The train is good but expensive: it was always pleasantly quiet but a
little prone to delay.

I drove most days: without speeding, you can get to Headington
roundabout from, say, the Wooloworths building on Marylebone Road in
just under 50 mins (leaving at 7:30am - more and more the later you
leave it). Again, it's pricey: reckon on about £12 a day in petrol. I
spent £9 but that was 2 years ago and with a 1 Litre Micra.

wrote:
I did this journey every day for 3 years!

It really does so come down to where in Oxford they are going to and
where in London exactly they are coming from. Being in Paddington means
(I think!) that you are not that handy for either main bus service
(Oxford Tube and X90). The bus from central London to the Headington
roundabout takes 90 mins (prob another 10 mins in to Oxford at least)
and IMHO is not viable: furthermore the cost is high if a travelcard is
also needed. As for bus lanes: there are some and they do help, but in
the run in to Thornhill P&R, you will still be sitting on the bus for
up to 20 mins very regularly.

The train is good but expensive: it was always pleasantly quiet but a
little prone to delay.

I drove most days: without speeding, you can get to Headington
roundabout from, say, the Wooloworths building on Marylebone Road in
just under 50 mins (leaving at 7:30am - more and more the later you
leave it). Again, it's pricey: reckon on about £12 a day in petrol. I
spent £9 but that was 2 years ago and with a 1 Litre Micra.

The nearest X90 stop would be Baker Street; Oxford Tube Marble Arch or
Notting Hill Gate.

Neil Williams wrote:

As to why bus stations have fallen out of favour, I don't know. In
Milton Keynes' case there is a good reason in that the centre is so
dispersed that all buses run the length of it on a single route (which
is useful in itself), and it was decided that stopping in front of the
railway station was more sensible than in the bus station which is a
short walk away.

One of cost maybe. In the case of a local authority owned bus station
there will be a charge of so much a departure whereas using a nearby
street will be free - or at least cheaper. If the bus company owns it
the temptation to sell it off for development must be high.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:40:08 +0100, "Martin Underwood" a@b wrote:

Has Gloucester Green always been just for long-distance buses or did
all/most buses call there at one time. For some reason, the concept of
having one central place where you can guarantee all buses will stop seems
to have fallen out of favour in most towns these days.

It never has been for city buses, only those going out-of-town and
long-distance coaches.

Back way back when, all the city routes were cross-city, and went
direct to Carfax and then on their route, so you had the Botley Road
services, 5, 6, 7 and 7A which all followed the same route west of
Carfax, but fanned out after they had passed St Clements. The No.1 was
the Station to Cowley route. From memory the Woodstock Road service 4
went off down Abingdon Road, while the Banbury Road service 2 carried
on to Headington. I can't recall what the Iffley Road service 3 did,
but it may have carried on up Walton Street.

The central change place was Carfax, with stops in Queen Street,
Cornmarket, St Aldates and the High. I've just been looking at my
photos of Oxford buses from the 1950s, and all those in Gloucester
Green were on country services.
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005, Martin Underwood wrote:

It's a great shame that there isn't a railway station adjoining the
Redbridge P&R to ferry people into Oxford station to cover the critical
couple of miles through the outskirts - and similarly one at Kidlington
would be good to take people from the north.

That's a really good idea! I'd never thought of that. Yes, Redbridge, Pear
Tree and Water Eaton P&Rs are right next to railway lines: Redbridge is
about two miles south of Oxford station (and about three miles north of
Radley) on the main line, Pear Tree is about 3 miles north of the station
(and about the same distance south of Islip) on the Bicester Town branch,
and Water Eaton is about 3.5 miles out on the same branch.

It'd be easy as falling off a punt to stick some cheap little platforms
there; you'd presumably only want one station at the northern end, which
couldn't be perfectly convenient for both P&Rs, but it's not too bad -
they're only a few hundred metres apart. You could then make them part of
the Bicester Town shuttle.

The cost is the problem, of course - not only would the stations be
expensive (although i think they could be built on the cheap, as minor
extensions to the P&Rs), but to run a service that's a meaningful
alternative to the buses would mean quite a lot of trains: the Bicester -
Redbridge - Bicester round trip is going to be at least an hour, so to
provide a turn-up-and-go (park-and-go?) service (6 tph) would take at
least six trains, which is rather a lot for such a small operation.
Perhaps if they were those little railbus jobs it would be practical.

Anyway, Mr Adam Evans has already had thoughts along these lines, albeit
rather grander:

http://www.geocities.com/lostlines/oxfordmetro

He's missed Redbridge, though.

tom

--
Rip and tear your guts! You are huge! That means you have huge guts! Rip and tear! -- The Doomguy

(This is not meant to have any relevance to London-Oxford travel;
I just thought some readers here might find it interesting. I'd
change the subject line, but I doubt there will be any followups...)

Martin Underwood:
Has Gloucester Green always been just for long-distance buses or did
all/most buses call there at one time. For some reason, the concept of
having one central place where you can guarantee all buses will stop seems
to have fallen out of favour in most towns these days.

Terry Harper:
It never has been for city buses, only those going out-of-town and
long-distance coaches.

Unless you live in Guelph, Ontario, Canada.

When I moved there in 1964, there were about 11 bus routes, all radiating
from St. George's Square (SGS) in the city centre. Almost all buses left
the square synchronously, every 20 minutes, although a couple of routes
were less frequent. On Sundays there were only 4 routes, different from
the regular ones, and they ran every 30 minutes from SGS. Oh, and by the
way, no route maps were available. The population of the city was then
about 45,000, soon increased to 60,000 or so by an annexation.

A few years later they revamped the bus system -- after which all buses
left SGS every *30* minutes, serving a total of *9* routes. I think
Sunday service was unchanged at first, then shut down altogether. And
that's what it was still like when I moved away in 1972.

Looking under http://guelph.ca now (the city now has 125,000
people), I find that the bus network *still* consists almost entirely of
routes radiating from SGS and running every 30 minutes, although they
do now run 7 days a week. There is just one route, a loop in the south
part of the city, that does not serve SGS, and I see that next week(!) a
second loop, a circuit more or less around the city limits, is being added.


Another curious feature of the Guelph transit system when I lived
there was that most buses actually served two routes alternately,
and the route signs were changed near the outer ends of the routes,
as if they were destination signs. So an northbound bus on the Elora
Road route was signed Elora Road, but a southbound was marked Waterloo
Avenue, because that's the route it would run onto upon leaving SGS.
This was makes some sort of sense for routes whose name relate to
the street they follow, but it was even done during a period when the
routes had only numbers and no names. This was undocumented -- if you
wanted to know what the bus route serving your area was called, you
either had to ask, or you had to see the bus while running away from SGS.
--
Mark Brader | "Don't be a luddy-duddy! Don't be a mooncalf!
Toronto | Don't be a jabbernowl! You're not those, are you?"
| --W.C. Fields, "The Bank Dick"

My text in this article is in the public domain.