It was obviously going to happen. All the mob who suddenly leapt onto
pedal bikes after the 7th July, are now being a menace to themselves and
anyone else who gets near them. I regularly see them going through red
lights, treating the pavement and roadway and equally appropriate places
to hurtle along...etc.

The sad thing is that they're probably thousands of times more likely to
get maimed riding a cycle than using the tube or bus.

Surely it's time for cycles to be registered and insured ? I'm not
suggesting mandatory training. To be honest I think they all know the
correct way to drive, but they just don't care. Put a traceable
registration number on the back and it'll give them an incentive not to
ride like lunatics.

Plus it might help reduce the number stolen each year.


--
Edward Cowling London UK

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:13:38 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

Surely it's time for cycles to be registered and insured ?

I may have just fed the troll, but surely it's time for nothing of the
sort. Surely it's time for more police, out on the streets and
visible, issuing fixed penalty tickets for cycling infringements as
well as ticketing motorists for dangerous driving (can't do that with
a camera), deterring other crime and assisting the public where
required?

Cameras, CCTV and the likes, while useful, are no substitute for
proper policing on the front line.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , Neil Williams
writes

I may have just fed the troll, but surely it's time for nothing of the
sort. Surely it's time for more police, out on the streets and
visible, issuing fixed penalty tickets for cycling infringements as
well as ticketing motorists for dangerous driving (can't do that with
a camera), deterring other crime and assisting the public where
required?

Possibly they already are - a friend of mine got an on-the-spot £30 fine
for riding his bike on the (wide) pavement of Bayswater Road last week.
Apparently he rode straight towards the policeman - foolish man!

--
Paul Terry

In message , Neil Williams
writes
Surely it's time for cycles to be registered and insured ?

I may have just fed the troll, but surely it's time for nothing of the
sort. Surely it's time for more police, out on the streets and visible,
issuing fixed penalty tickets for cycling infringements as well as
ticketing motorists for dangerous driving (can't do that with a
camera), deterring other crime and assisting the public where required?

Cameras, CCTV and the likes, while useful, are no substitute for proper
policing on the front line.
I agree with both, cyclists should be as accountable as any other road
user and the increase in police numbers would ensure greater safety from
rouge cyclist, car, lorry drivers and especially white van man.
--
Clive

In message , Paul Terry
writes
Possibly they already are - a friend of mine got an on-the-spot £30
fine for riding his bike on the (wide) pavement of Bayswater Road last
week. Apparently he rode straight towards the policeman - foolish man!
If he knows it's stupid to ride towards a policeman, then he knows it's
wrong at all times.
--
Clive

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Neil Williams
writes

I may have just fed the troll, but surely it's time for nothing of the
sort. Surely it's time for more police, out on the streets and
visible, issuing fixed penalty tickets for cycling infringements as
well as ticketing motorists for dangerous driving (can't do that with
a camera), deterring other crime and assisting the public where
required?

Possibly they already are - a friend of mine got an on-the-spot £30 fine
for riding his bike on the (wide) pavement of Bayswater Road last week.
Apparently he rode straight towards the policeman - foolish man!

I'd rather that offences committed on a bicycle (exceeding speed limit,
riding while over the alcohol limit, riding through red lights or occupied
zebra crossings, overtaking on the left a vehicle that's indicating left)
were treated as motoring offences and generated points on your driving
licence if you hold one - or a summary fine if you don't. And I'd like to
see cyclists required to carry third-party insurance to cover damage to cars
when they try to overtake and scratch your car or when they cause other
drivers to swerve to avoid an accident, hitting something else in the
process. They should be subject to the same legal responsibilities and
restrictions as car drivers. And that's speaking as an occasional cyclist!

I'd regard riding on pavements as a fairly venial sin if you're riding
slowly and safely, with regard for pedestrians. Sometimes if there's no
dropped kerb where a cycle lane turns into an ordinary pavement, I've ridden
very slowly (probably less than walking pace) until I've got to a dropped
kerb so I can join the road itself.

As a cyclist, I always resist the temptation to overtake on the left because
as a driver I know how dangerous it is. As a car driver I pull close to the
kerb if I've overtaken a cyclist near a junction where indicating to turn
left, to block him from overtaking me on the left. I've even seen cyclists
overtaking (on the right) cars that are stopped in the middle of the road
indicating to turn right! I know someone who was prosecuted for doing this
while driving his car, but I wonder what punishment would be applied to a
cyclist who did this?

I've seen many many cyclists go through red traffic lights: they seem to
think that they can treat lights as give way junctions. It's fairly rare to
see cars etc go through red lights (I've probably seen under ten in the 25
years I've been driving) but almost every time I go to Oxford or Reading, I
see a cyclist go through red lights some time on my journey.

The other day at the lights on the Milton Interchange (A34 Didcot junction)
I overtook a cyclist in bright yellow cycling clothes (legally) doing about
40 mph downhill who then rode straight out into the traffic (overtaking me
on the left hand side as I was stopped at the give way line), causing
everyone on the roundabout to ram on their brakes, and then under the bridge
he went through the red light, narrowly missing colliding with another car
coming off the A34 who would have had a green light. That's the sort of
riding that is indefensible and is a reason why (IMHO) bikes *do* need
recognisable registration plates. If he'd had plates, I'd have stopped as
soon as it was safe and reported him to the police, as I suspect many of the
other affected motorists would.

"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Neil Williams
writes
Surely it's time for cycles to be registered and insured ?

I may have just fed the troll, but surely it's time for nothing of the
sort. Surely it's time for more police, out on the streets and visible,
issuing fixed penalty tickets for cycling infringements as well as
ticketing motorists for dangerous driving (can't do that with a camera),
deterring other crime and assisting the public where required?

Cameras, CCTV and the likes, while useful, are no substitute for proper
policing on the front line.

I agree with both, cyclists should be as accountable as any other road
user and the increase in police numbers would ensure greater safety from
rouge cyclist, car, lorry drivers and especially white van man.

Are "rouge [sic] cyclists" the ones who go through red lights? ;-)

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:55:52 +0100, "Martin Underwood"
wrote:

I'd rather that offences committed on a bicycle (exceeding speed limit,
riding while over the alcohol limit, riding through red lights or occupied
zebra crossings, overtaking on the left a vehicle that's indicating left)
were treated as motoring offences and generated points on your driving
licence if you hold one - or a summary fine if you don't.

I don't believe points are appropriate, unless a cycling licence is
introduced. Otherwise, those who do have a car are punished more
harshly than those who do not.

I would be supportive of a suitably large fine.

Incidentally, it is my understanding that the drink-drive limit does
not apply to bicycles per-se, and as such that you'd be convicted of
something different if caught cycling dangerously due to having
consumed too much alcohol. This probably isn't a bad thing, as you're
a whole lot less likely to kill someone cycling badly at 10mph than
you are driving a car at 30. (This is not a justification for drunken
cycling, merely a comparison of the two rather different modes of
transport involved).

And I'd like to
see cyclists required to carry third-party insurance to cover damage to cars
when they try to overtake and scratch your car or when they cause other
drivers to swerve to avoid an accident, hitting something else in the
process.

Many of them do, in the form of their household insurance, believe it
or not.

If car drivers "swerve to avoid an accident, hitting something else in
the process", they haven't avoided an accident, incidentally, they may
well have *caused* one. While I won't defend poor cycling or driving,
if you drive assuming that others *will* do something stupid or
dangerous, you're unlikely to hit them or anything else. I have lost
count of the number of times I have avoided accidents, both in my car
and on a bike, by having suspected someone was about to do something
stupid/illegal/dangerous and taking suitable and safe evasive action
before said act was perpetrated.

I'm not, however, a perfect driver or cyclist; I have been involved in
accidents on both means of transport over the years.

As a cyclist, I always resist the temptation to overtake on the left because
as a driver I know how dangerous it is.

Agreed. It would help if junction layouts were not set up to
encourage cyclists to do this. Things like advanced stop lines are
not really helpful to the cyclist or the car driver.

That's the sort of
riding that is indefensible and is a reason why (IMHO) bikes *do* need
recognisable registration plates. If he'd had plates, I'd have stopped as
soon as it was safe and reported him to the police, as I suspect many of the
other affected motorists would.

Perhaps, but the police would have taken no action as it'd be your
word against his (unless others also reported him, I suppose), hence
why I would prefer more actual police officers out and about. You'd
also have a job enforcing cycling bans.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Clive wrote:
In message , Paul Terry
writes
Possibly they already are - a friend of mine got an on-the-spot £30
fine for riding his bike on the (wide) pavement of Bayswater Road last
week. Apparently he rode straight towards the policeman - foolish man!
If he knows it's stupid to ride towards a policeman, then he knows it's
wrong at all times.
--
It's not ideal, but certainly there are some parts of the road where
it's not safe to cycle on the road, leaving the pavement as the only
safe option. I've cycled slowly on the pavement when carrying a child
on the back. In this instance I'd rather risk a fine than an accident.

If local authorities made descent provision for cyclists like they do
in Holland and Germany, then this wouldn't be an issue. Certainly
Tunbridge Wells is purely car focused, and makes no consideration for
cyclists, apart from throwing some paint on to the road.

(There's one road with about 4,000 school children, the majority of
whom are driven to school, partly because its a dangerous road with no
cycle path. As a result its blocked with cars during school run time)

In message , Clive
writes

If he knows it's stupid to ride towards a policeman, then he knows it's
wrong at all times.

Indeed he does, and has paid the £30 as a result. But similar flouting
of the law is extremely widespread. I live close to the South Circular
and see perhaps as many as 1 driver in 3 using a mobile phone at the
wheel - only yesterday I was almost knocked down on our nearest
pedestrian crossing by someone who was so engrossed in her phone
conversation that she not only failed to observe that she was
approaching a pedestrian crossing but that also three people were
already halfway across.

The law needs to be applied vigorously to everyone who flouts their
responsibilities to others - not just "easy targets" such as cyclists.

--
Paul Terry