Please don't use photos as 'evidence', since if I put my 'anorak' on
when it comes to the changes to route 13 (which I deliberately chose
not to make it a Routemaster vs OPO thing), LED displays are completely
invisible on the average photo.

Paul Corfield wrote:
On 17 Oct 2005 08:08:17 -0700, wrote:

Awful provincial-style large route number and destination only, no
front via points, meaning London's buses have finally descended to
the level of the rest of the UK.

Well done TfL, who presumably set the standards (sic) of such
things?

Yes. I cannot fathom the change to the traditional style of LT
blind. As tenders are re-awarded all blinds will deteriorate to
this lowest common denominator mess. If this is deemed necessary
for the DDA then it truly is an awful piece of legislation in terms
of what is being sacrificed in order to achieve "compliance".

I'm no fan of the DDA, but I wonder whether the intermediate
destinations are really that useful. When they were first introduced,
there was often no information at bus stops about the various routes, so
you had to rely on the bus blinds. Now we have timetables and
particularly spider maps, and while you're waiting for the bus, you can
work out which routes will take you to your destination. You can always
ask the driver if you're not sure.

The advantage of the new blinds is that they are very clear at a
distance, even to the thousands of people who don't consider themselves
disabled but have impaired vision.

Curiously, we seem to have progressed in the other direction on tube
trains. For example, the new red dot-matrix destination displays on the
refurbished D-stock trains are less readable than the blinds that they
replaced.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

wrote:
Presumably you are in favour of the removal of "via points" on blinds,
so that those of us without encyclopaedic knowledge of London bus
routes will never try a new route because we won't know any of its
intermediate points.
The paradox is that if person X doesn't have a good knowledge of London,
then telling X some intermediate points isn't necessarily going to help.
For example, if X knows route A goes to "Marble Arch", and route B goes
"via Edgware Road", then without at least some knowledge, X might not
appreciate the significance.

Anyway, Chris Tolley, your railway pictures are very nice.
You're kind to say so.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683696.html
(51368 in chocolate and cream for "GWR 150" in 1985)

Yes, Chris, but let me give you an example of when "via points" might
be very useful:

Someone in Fulham wanting to get to Hammersmith Broadway might find it
ueful to know that both the 295 and 391 go via Hammersmith Broadway
when waiting for a bus at, say Fulham Broadway, albeit they use
different roads to get there. If there are no "via points" displayed,
then someone who is told to get the 295 to Hammersmith would let the
391 go past, since there is no way for that person (admittedly, unless
they are standing at the bus stop for long enough to read the panels)
to know that this bus will pass there.

Chris, in the example you give, of course Edgware Road is a very long
road and having that as a "via point" would not be particularly
helpful. Marble Arch being a single point is, however, a good point to
display, as would any road junction or station name.

Marc.

" typed


Yes, Chris, but let me give you an example of when "via points" might
be very useful:

Someone in Fulham wanting to get to Hammersmith Broadway might find it
ueful to know that both the 295 and 391 go via Hammersmith Broadway
when waiting for a bus at, say Fulham Broadway, albeit they use
different roads to get there. If there are no "via points" displayed,
then someone who is told to get the 295 to Hammersmith would let the
391 go past, since there is no way for that person (admittedly, unless
they are standing at the bus stop for long enough to read the panels)
to know that this bus will pass there.

There are three bus routes from Brent Cross Shopping Centre to Archway
Station, leaving from two widely-separated stops. They take *vastly*
divergent routes. I suspect few people take the full route on the 143 or
the C11 but might do so on the 210 (which goes on to Finsbury Park)...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

And what about discriminating against those that cannot read at all?
Surely the only legal alternative is to have a sound system installed
near the front doors of all buses, blaring out the number, destination
and via points for the benefit of the partially-sighted, blind and
illiterate.

Please don't give them ideas!
--
Mark Brader | "Forgive me if I misunderstood myself, but
Toronto | I don't think I was arguing in favour of that..."
| -- Geoff Butler

wrote:
Awful provincial-style large route number and destination only, no
front via points, meaning London's buses have finally descended to the
level of the rest of the UK.

This really needs to be challenged.

What on earth is the use of knowing that a bus in the back streets of
Southall is going to Shepherds Bush Green?

Especially when it was going the same way on the same road as another
bus showing 'Heathrow Airport'.

Bring back via points, and plenty of them. Even better, display them
in the right order for the way the bus is going.

If the lettering has to be larger, make the displays larger! They've
shrunk enormously over the years.

Colin McKenzie

In article ,
(Colin McKenzie) wrote:

wrote:
Awful provincial-style large route number and destination only, no
front via points, meaning London's buses have finally descended to
the level of the rest of the UK.

This really needs to be challenged.

What on earth is the use of knowing that a bus in the back streets of
Southall is going to Shepherds Bush Green?

Especially when it was going the same way on the same road as another
bus showing 'Heathrow Airport'.

Bring back via points, and plenty of them. Even better, display them
in the right order for the way the bus is going.

If the lettering has to be larger, make the displays larger! They've
shrunk enormously over the years.

I entirely agree. My last sight of the 13 before the end of Routemasters
was on Wednesday night. Both buses were new ones and not RMs. All the
38s (and less surprisingly) 159s were still RMS, though. I've not even
seen a bendy on trials on the 38 and I see rather more of the route on
my cycling travels than I see of the 13.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In the Referenced article, last October, someone wrote:
And what about discriminating against those that cannot read at all?
Surely the only legal alternative is to have a sound system installed
near the front doors of all buses, blaring out the number, destination
and via points for the benefit of the partially-sighted, blind and
illiterate.

And I pleaded:
Please don't give them ideas!

Too late.

This summer I spent some time in Chicago. I never rode a bus while
I was there, but several times I was walking along the street when
one stopped near me. And *guess what*...!
--
Mark Brader | "I'm surprised there aren't laws about this in the USA..."
| "Of course there are laws about this in the USA.
Toronto | Without even reading further to find out what 'this' is."
| --Rob Bannister and Evan Kirshenbaum

Mark Brader wrote:
In the Referenced article, last October, someone wrote:

And what about discriminating against those that cannot read at all?
Surely the only legal alternative is to have a sound system
installed near the front doors of all buses, blaring out the
number, destination and via points for the benefit of the
partially-sighted, blind and illiterate.

And I pleaded:
Please don't give them ideas!

Too late.

This summer I spent some time in Chicago. I never rode a bus while
I was there, but several times I was walking along the street when
one stopped near me. And *guess what*...!

When they do that in London, they'll do it in 15 languages.