"Tony Polson" wrote

How does this evidence of practical incompetence support your
assertion that he was "a brilliant railway manager"?

He set himself six principles by which he considered his railway should be
judged - safety, speed, punctuality, convenience, comfort, and economy. He
inspired people to achieve these principles, perhaps especially when he was
District Superintendent, Stratford, and, aided by the Shenfield
electrification, improved his bit of the Great Eastern measured against all
these principles, and again, when he was GM of the Western and brought it
back from being a slow, unpunctual and uneconomic railway to one which was
much faster and more punctual, and which generatyed a better return. He
failed when he interfered in other people's jobs, even if his luck meant
that he often got away with things he shouldn't have done.

Peter

Peter Masson wrote:

There's plenty of evidence that he was a brilliant railway manager.

No, there isn't - he was reasonably good, but, largely because he
painted himself as something of an iconoclast, and, as already stated,
was a surpreme raconteur/bull****ter, he gained a following (most of
whom didn't or don't have prctical railway or management experience)
who belived his every word, and saw him as a hero.

[snip yet another tiresome anecdote]

Half an hour later Control phoned again (barely concealed laughter).
'He has done what you said. He has pulled it broadside across both Main
Lines.'

And you believe all that?

Peter Masson wrote:
"Tony Polson" wrote

How does this evidence of practical incompetence support your
assertion that he was "a brilliant railway manager"?

He set himself six principles by which he considered his railway should be
judged - safety, speed, punctuality, convenience, comfort, and economy. He
inspired people to achieve these principles, perhaps especially when he was
District Superintendent, Stratford, and, aided by the Shenfield
electrification, improved his bit of the Great Eastern measured against all
these principles, and again, when he was GM of the Western and brought it
back from being a slow, unpunctual and uneconomic railway to one which was
much faster and more punctual, and which generatyed a better return. He
failed when he interfered in other people's jobs, even if his luck meant
that he often got away with things he shouldn't have done.

Peter

I think it wouild be great if I Tried to Run a Railway was re-issued in
a new edition with ample footnotes filling in some of the background to
some of GFF's comments and maybe critically assessing GGF's own
contribution to the railway. One of the irritating things I found about
that book is that he mentions in passing various colleagues that I've
never heard of and seems to assume that his readers know all about
them.

Andy

Hey, guys...

This thread started because Larry (the original poster) asked how the
ELLX trains were going to affect existing suburban services on the
southern section. He asked specifically about the services to West
Croydon, and I joined in and asked about the services to Crystal Palace.

But all the replies seem to have been about when Liverpool Street was
moved inside the City boundries, or about how good a raconteur and/or
railway manager some dead guy was.

Isn't _anyone_ actually going to answer our questions: How will
introducing the ELLX services affect existing suburban services to West
Croydon and Crystal Palace?

Thank you.

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solar penguin wrote:

Isn't _anyone_ actually going to answer our questions: How will
introducing the ELLX services affect existing suburban services to
West Croydon and Crystal Palace?

Isn't the only real answer anyone can give: "it remains to be seen"?

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p15036434.html
(66 241 at Winwick, 10 May 2005)

"Chris Tolley" wrote in message
...
solar penguin wrote:

Isn't _anyone_ actually going to answer our questions: How will
introducing the ELLX services affect existing suburban services to
West Croydon and Crystal Palace?

Isn't the only real answer anyone can give: "it remains to be seen"?

Surely someone who has planned the project must have more idea of what all
the planned services are on each line? Is there anyone with such knowledge
on this group?

Michael

solar penguin wrote:
Hey, guys...


Isn't _anyone_ actually going to answer our questions: How will
introducing the ELLX services affect existing suburban services to West
Croydon and Crystal Palace?

Thus far I have not read/heard anybody who has commented on the LBSCR
service pattern post ELLX. However the revised Thameslink proposals
will be starting to re-emerge shortly.A Public Inquiry into the
Thameslink TWA Order and the project took place between June 2000 and
May 2001. A decision on this was expected around late 2002 but was
delayed due to problems with the design of the proposed new concourses
at Blackfriars and London Bridge stations and the absence of detailed
plans for reinstating the Borough High Street Conservation Area after
buildings had been demolished. Discussions have been ongoing between
the Strategic Rail Authority (SRA)the DfT and the Public Inquiry
inspector regarding the best way forward. IIRC The renewed public
inquiry was to be formally opened on 6th September 2005 and is expected
to last for about two months.IIUC a key contribution to the cost of
Thameslink is now going to come through the complete redevelopment of
London Bridge Station with substantial office and retail development
built over the train decks. The existing London Bridge station is
reaching Health and Safety limits during the peaks so doing nothing is
ceasing to be an option. Dave Arquati's alwaystouchout.com site has
illustrations http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/23 of what is known
as the "Masterplan". London Bridge through platforms will increase from
6 to 9, with a corresponding reduction in terminating platforms from 9
to 6.This means that in the morning peak hour terminating services will
decrease from 29 to 18. During the construction at the station and the
new grade separated junction at South Bermondsey/Bricklayers Arms
Junction the line from Norwood Junction via Forest Hill is bound to be
disrupted.

--- Bob Robinson said...

IIRC The renewed public
inquiry was to be formally opened on 6th September 2005 and is
expected to last for about two months.IIUC a key contribution to the
cost of Thameslink is now going to come through the complete
redevelopment of London Bridge Station with substantial office and
retail development built over the train decks.


London Bridge through platforms will increase from 6 to
9, with a corresponding reduction in terminating platforms from 9 to
6.This means that in the morning peak hour terminating services will
decrease from 29 to 18.

Reduced platforms, decreased services... So, you're saying that if this
"Masterplan" goes ahead, then my local station, Gipsy Hill, could end up
with a _permanently reduced_ service to London Brdge?They'd spend all
that time and money on rebuilding the station just to make the service
_worse_ than before they started!?!

Where is this public enquiry? Can I go there and complain and protest
and get them to stop this nonsense before it's too late?

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http://www.freewebs.com/solar_penguin/

--- Michael Hopkins said...

"Chris Tolley" wrote in message
...

Isn't the only real answer anyone can give: "it remains to be seen"?

Surely someone who has planned the project must have more idea of
what all the planned services are on each line? Is there anyone with
such knowledge on this group?


And if the train companies aren't saying anything, you know it can't be
good news. I guess I've got a reason to be worried.

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http://www.freewebs.com/solar_penguin/

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, solar penguin wrote:

--- Bob Robinson said...

London Bridge through platforms will increase from 6 to 9, with a
corresponding reduction in terminating platforms from 9 to 6.This means
that in the morning peak hour terminating services will decrease from
29 to 18.

Reduced platforms, decreased services...

I thought it was all because some of what are currently terminating
services will become through services - if not to the Snow Hill tunnel and
beyond, then to Cannon Street, Blackfriars or Charing Cross. There won't
be fewer trains, there'll be the same number, but going further. BICBW.

tom

--
you can't feel your stomack with glory -- Czako