The 312 bus route appears to have come 197.
For example it is indicated on
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/pdf/peckham.pdf

However I can see no announcement to the change. Any idea why this might
have happened, apart from a job creating scheme for sign makers?

--
Andrew Black

There's a bit of detail about it in a TfL powerpoint presentation
titled "11 May 2005 - Minutes (Appendix 4 - Transport for London)" on
this page:

http://www.croydon.gov.uk/counciland...981/aww?a=5441

- it's a 2.8MB download,

Looks like the point of it was to improve reliability between Norwood
junction and Croydon.

Fresh Cheese wrote:
There's a bit of detail about it in a TfL powerpoint presentation
titled "11 May 2005 - Minutes (Appendix 4 - Transport for London)" on
this page:

http://www.croydon.gov.uk/counciland...981/aww?a=5441

- it's a 2.8MB download,

Looks like the point of it was to improve reliability between Norwood
junction and Croydon.


I shall take the liberty of extrapolating on this a little, as the 197
is not a new bus route, but has metamorphosized from what it once was.

Prior to the change on 3rd September:
* 312 ran between Peckham to South Croydon Bus Garage
* 197 ran between Croydon and Norwood Junction

The 312 was a problem route as it was unreliable, and was most heavily
used between Peckham and Forest Hill whilst the number of passengers
travelling on the southern part (Norwood Junction to Croydon) had
dropped.

What's changed since 3rd September:
* 197, which still starts in Croydon High Street, has taken over the
312 route from Norwood Junction.
* 312 now runs between South Croydon Bus Garage and Norwood Junction.


The 197 and 312 run in parallel for part of the journey between Croydon
and Norwood Junction, but for part of this journey they do diverge
slightly, which may confuse those who are on the 197 and expecting it
to mirror the 312 route into Croydon from Norwood Junction - it
certainly confused me on a recent journey down in those parts!

The publicity I saw at bus stops at the northern end of the old 312
route only stated (IIRC) that the 197 was replacing the northern
portion of the 312, which left me with some questions, not least the
seemingly arbitrary choice of a new route number. The powerpoint
presentation cleared this up (in my mind at least) by explaining the
197 was an extended version of an old route, and also clears up why the
bus went the 'wrong' way in the Woodside area.

So thanks for the link to that Croydon council page Fresh Cheese.

Bad etiquette to reply to your own posts I know, I just wanted to be
absolutely clear on what I meant...

Mizter T wrote:
What's changed since 3rd September:
* 197, which still starts in Croydon High Street, has taken over the
312 route from Norwood Junction.

i.e. the extended 197 has taken over the old 312 route north of Norwood
Junction up to Peckham.

* 312 now runs between South Croydon Bus Garage and Norwood Junction.


My pre-posting proof reading obviously needs some improvement!

Mizter T wrote:

What's changed since 3rd September:
* 197, which still starts in Croydon High Street, has taken over the
312 route from Norwood Junction.
* 312 now runs between South Croydon Bus Garage and Norwood Junction.

To which I would add that the 312 is now operated by single-deckers.

--
John Ray, London UK.

On 29 Sep 2005 08:52:36 -0700, Mizter T wrote:
Bad etiquette to reply to your own posts I know, I just wanted to be
absolutely clear on what I meant...

Mizter T wrote:
What's changed since 3rd September:
* 197, which still starts in Croydon High Street, has taken over the
312 route from Norwood Junction.

i.e. the extended 197 has taken over the old 312 route north of Norwood
Junction up to Peckham.

And the 312 was the southern extension of the original 12 which in my
younger days ran from South Croydon Garage to East Acton, and Wormwood
Scrubs on Sundays ISTR. I think the last time I got a 12 from Peckham
to Shepherds Bush was in the early 80's.


* 312 now runs between South Croydon Bus Garage and Norwood Junction.


My pre-posting proof reading obviously needs some improvement!



--
Martin

Martin Smith wrote:
On 29 Sep 2005 08:52:36 -0700, Mizter T wrote:
Bad etiquette to reply to your own posts I know, I just wanted to be
absolutely clear on what I meant...

Mizter T wrote:
What's changed since 3rd September:
* 197, which still starts in Croydon High Street, has taken over the
312 route from Norwood Junction.

i.e. the extended 197 has taken over the old 312 route north of Norwood
Junction up to Peckham.

And the 312 was the southern extension of the original 12 which in my
younger days ran from South Croydon Garage to East Acton

How long did that take?!

, and Wormwood
Scrubs on Sundays ISTR. I think the last time I got a 12 from Peckham
to Shepherds Bush was in the early 80's.

Ditto!



* 312 now runs between South Croydon Bus Garage and Norwood Junction.


My pre-posting proof reading obviously needs some improvement!


--
Larry Lard
Replies to group please

On 30 Sep 2005 02:11:37 -0700, Larry Lard wrote:

Martin Smith wrote:
On 29 Sep 2005 08:52:36 -0700, Mizter T wrote:
Bad etiquette to reply to your own posts I know, I just wanted to be
absolutely clear on what I meant...

Mizter T wrote:
What's changed since 3rd September:
* 197, which still starts in Croydon High Street, has taken over the
312 route from Norwood Junction.

i.e. the extended 197 has taken over the old 312 route north of Norwood
Junction up to Peckham.

And the 312 was the southern extension of the original 12 which in my
younger days ran from South Croydon Garage to East Acton

How long did that take?!

I did it once with a mate, just for the sheer hell of it, but can't
remeber how long it took, but it was longer than the last time I went
from Hounslow to Peckham on a 37, also some time in the early 80's



--
Martin