Oh dear, those spokesmen are going to look a little silly when they read
their quotes.

And to think that just over 10 years ago a zone one fare was £1.
Imagine if you had said that in 10 years time the fares would be 300%
dearer.

That would indeed be a fair point. I know you meant 200% but of course that
is a cash fare. The Oyster Pre-Pay fare will be £1.50. A 50% rise doesn't
sound so bad. Bad enough, but not so bad.

My point was aimed at the absurdity of the comments. The first one talked
about bus and tube fares spiralling out of control. The season ticket
prices are going up around 4% I believe, which could be considered
excessive, but certainly not out of control. Oyster Pre-Pay prices seem to
be staying the same or even being reduced, so they aren't out of control.
Only for those wishing to use cash for daily fares is there an issue.

The next one said the price hike would clobber tourists. Why? They can use
an Oyster Pre-Pay just like anyone else and are encouraged to.

Finally we had one saying that it would hit those who don't use Oyster cards
because many train companies refuse them (I assume he meant don't issue
them). Well I don't see how that forces them to pay cash fares instead of
using Pre-Pay. OK with through daily tickets there may be an issue but
surely not a huge one in the scheme of things.

Seems to me that really the announcement was pretty reasonable and not
really very controversial at all.

Seems to me that really the announcement was pretty reasonable and not
really very controversial at all.

The papers print the same story every year and highlight only the worst
comparisons they can find.

In message , Graham J
writes

Finally we had one saying that it would hit those who don't use Oyster cards
because many train companies refuse them (I assume he meant don't issue
them). Well I don't see how that forces them to pay cash fares instead of
using Pre-Pay. OK with through daily tickets there may be an issue but
surely not a huge one in the scheme of things.

My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for
which I use one-day travel cards.

How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted by
SWT?

--
Paul Terry

Finally we had one saying that it would hit those who don't use Oyster
cards
because many train companies refuse them (I assume he meant don't issue
them). Well I don't see how that forces them to pay cash fares instead
of
using Pre-Pay. OK with through daily tickets there may be an issue but
surely not a huge one in the scheme of things.

My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for
which I use one-day travel cards.

How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted by
SWT?

It is unlikely to benefit you at all. However a dramatic increase in cash
single fares and a decrease or freezing of Oyster Pre-Pay fares will not
have a negative benefit on you either and that was the main thrust of
today's announcement. My point was simply that there was nothing in today's
anouncement that significantly penalised those who can't use Oyster cards on
their train services.

In message , at 17:52:40 on Tue, 4 Oct
2005, Paul Terry remarked:
My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for
which I use one-day travel cards.

How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted by
SWT?

But how do highly priced cash fares dis-benefit you, given that you have
a travelcard?
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland
Perry writes

In message , at 17:52:40 on Tue, 4 Oct
2005, Paul Terry remarked:

My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for
which I use one-day travel cards.

How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted
by SWT?

But how do highly priced cash fares dis-benefit you, given that you
have a travelcard?

They don't. I am merely pointing out that Oyster is of no benefit to me
or Londoners like me who now work largely from home and only go into the
office one or two days a week using NR + tube. At least, it is of no
benefit until it becomes London-wide and encompasses the entire railway
system in the capital.

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Roland
Perry writes

In message , at 17:52:40 on Tue, 4 Oct
2005, Paul Terry remarked:

My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for
which I use one-day travel cards.

How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted
by SWT?

But how do highly priced cash fares dis-benefit you, given that you
have a travelcard?

They don't. I am merely pointing out that Oyster is of no benefit to me
or Londoners like me who now work largely from home and only go into the
office one or two days a week using NR + tube. At least, it is of no
benefit until it becomes London-wide and encompasses the entire railway
system in the capital.


You therefore have nothing to worry about with regards to the new fares
regime.

TfL would love the Oyster Pre Pay system to go London-wide and be
rolled out across the whole National Rail network in the capital. I
have read that they'd cover some of the installation costs (something I
read said they'd cover the entire cost). It is however not in their
power to make this happen, it is the decision of the TOCs.

As I see it the TOCs are wary of Pre Pay for business reasons, and
given the current business structure of the railways it shouldn't
surprise anyone that they look at things from this perspective. Some
day I'll kick of a thread with some further thoughts on the TOCs
aversion to Pre Pay, but this thread is not the right forum for such
considered thoughts as the temperature is a little too hot with
indignation!

In message om, Mizter
T writes

You therefore have nothing to worry about with regards to the new fares
regime.

I know that. I have repeatedly (but apparently unsuccessfully) being
trying to say that Oyster offers no benefits to travellers such as me.

TfL would love the Oyster Pre Pay system to go London-wide and be
rolled out across the whole National Rail network in the capital.

Indeed, and I would love it too. But given that is not the case, Oyster
is a lame duck for many occasional commuters, particularly south of the
Thames where most journeys involve National Rail.

Pre-pay is ideal for the increasing number of occasional commuters, for
whom a season ticket is a waste of money. But failure to bring on board
the NR network has seriously compromised the value of pre-pay Oyster for
a significant number of people.

--
Paul Terry

On 5 Oct 2005 11:01:04 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

As I see it the TOCs are wary of Pre Pay for business reasons, and
given the current business structure of the railways it shouldn't
surprise anyone that they look at things from this perspective. Some
day I'll kick of a thread with some further thoughts on the TOCs
aversion to Pre Pay, but this thread is not the right forum for such
considered thoughts as the temperature is a little too hot with
indignation!

The principle with the equivalent bus day tickets, which cover several
operators and several counties, is that the issuing company keeps the
revenue, and swings and roundabouts sort the whole thing out.

Trying to account for every journey and allocating revenue would be an
impossible task. Well, maybe not impossible, but nobody has found he
need to do it so far.
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

Terry Harper wrote:

As I see it the TOCs are wary of Pre Pay for business reasons, and
given the current business structure of the railways it shouldn't
surprise anyone that they look at things from this perspective.

Trying to account for every journey and allocating revenue would be an
impossible task. Well, maybe not impossible, but nobody has found he
need to do it so far.

I'd actually say pre-pay is to the TOCs advantage - each and every journey
made with an Oystercard will get recorded allowing revenue to be divided up
far more fairly.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk