"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:43:40 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:



So you're already choosing to pay more.

No you are not. Anyone with any sense does not buy a monthly
pass to cover their 2 week xmas and summer break

Assuming you take your holiday as such. In my experience most people
take their holiday entitlement in more than two blocks.

You know a weird set of 'most' people.

IME most people have 2 weeks off at Xmas because their
employer gives them no choice.

And most people take 2 (or more) weeks holiday in the
summer/easter when the kids are off school.

I guess if you work in retail (or hospitality) it's different, but
I would be suprised if almost every one else didn't fit the above.

I just looked at uswitch.com and it gave me a whole list of 12-month
loans that the monthly payment is less than a monthly Travelcard
(using the example of a Z1-5 as quoted).

but is it less than 11?

Many are.

but not by much I suspect

tim

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:02:39 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"James Farrar" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:43:40 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:



So you're already choosing to pay more.

No you are not. Anyone with any sense does not buy a monthly
pass to cover their 2 week xmas and summer break

Assuming you take your holiday as such. In my experience most people
take their holiday entitlement in more than two blocks.

You know a weird set of 'most' people.

IME most people have 2 weeks off at Xmas because their
employer gives them no choice.

And most people take 2 (or more) weeks holiday in the
summer/easter when the kids are off school.

I guess if you work in retail (or hospitality) it's different, but
I would be suprised if almost every one else didn't fit the above.

I'm in a service industry; our customers are in many different fields,
and so I get to hear about holidays and suchlike as it's the sort of
thing people tend to talk about. ("I'm off to Paris for a long
weekend", to give just one example from this week).

I've *never* heard of a company requiring 10 days' holiday allowance
be taken at the Christmas/New Year period. This year, the longest that
I know about is five days.

I just looked at uswitch.com and it gave me a whole list of 12-month
loans that the monthly payment is less than a monthly Travelcard
(using the example of a Z1-5 as quoted).

but is it less than 11?

Many are.

but not by much I suspect

By an amount greater than zero.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:02:39 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"James Farrar" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:43:40 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:



So you're already choosing to pay more.

No you are not. Anyone with any sense does not buy a monthly
pass to cover their 2 week xmas and summer break

Assuming you take your holiday as such. In my experience most people
take their holiday entitlement in more than two blocks.

You know a weird set of 'most' people.

IME most people have 2 weeks off at Xmas because their
employer gives them no choice.

Absolutely no people I know - and that cover a wide variety of jobs -
gets that. Just about the closest would be employers who shutdown
from XmD to NYD, which is only 8-10 days depending on when the
weekends fall, although of course 5-7 of those days are weekends or
bank holidays.

And most people take 2 (or more) weeks holiday in the
summer/easter when the kids are off school.

It may have escaped your notice, but there are more households in the
country _without_ children than those with. Also, not everyone takes
two-week holidays, kids or not.

I guess if you work in retail (or hospitality) it's different, but
I would be suprised if almost every one else didn't fit the above.

I would suggest that if you work in just about every sector it's
different., and that you're just wrong.

--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:02:39 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:



IME most people have 2 weeks off at Xmas because their
employer gives them no choice.

Absolutely no people I know - and that cover a wide variety of jobs -
gets that. Just about the closest would be employers who shutdown
from XmD to NYD, which is only 8-10 days depending on when the
weekends fall, although of course 5-7 of those days are weekends or
bank holidays.

This is exactly right. I did not say they had to use 10 days
leave, but that they had a period of 2 weeks when the did
not go to work.

No-one is sensibly going to buy a monthly season on the 4th
of December as they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st
(and in many cases longer).

And most people take 2 (or more) weeks holiday in the
summer/easter when the kids are off school.

It may have escaped your notice, but there are more households in the
country _without_ children than those with.

They still take holidays in 'chunks'.

Also, not everyone takes
two-week holidays, kids or not.

Most do IME.

I guess if you work in retail (or hospitality) it's different, but
I would be suprised if almost every one else didn't fit the above.

I would suggest that if you work in just about every sector it's
different., and that you're just wrong.

I work in an 'office' environment and have done so for
20 years. Almost everone in the office takes a consecutive
holiday break.

tim

On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 18:40:26 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:02:39 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:

IME most people have 2 weeks off at Xmas because their
employer gives them no choice.

Absolutely no people I know - and that cover a wide variety of jobs -
gets that. Just about the closest would be employers who shutdown
from XmD to NYD, which is only 8-10 days depending on when the
weekends fall, although of course 5-7 of those days are weekends or
bank holidays.

This is exactly right. I did not say they had to use 10 days
leave, but that they had a period of 2 weeks when the did
not go to work.

Even the maximum of 10 is not "2 weeks." Most years it's only 8 days -
i.e. one week and one day - as it is this year. However, hardly anyone
I know gets that.

No-one is sensibly going to buy a monthly season on the 4th
of December as they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st

You mean "... _if_ they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st."
Those days which fall on a weekend excepted, Dec 27-31 have always
been working days for me, and for most people that I know, some of
whom would be working the weekends, anyway. Just about the only
exceptions are those in teaching.

(and in many cases longer).

You keep claiming this; I - and a number of other posters, it seems -
dispute it.

And most people take 2 (or more) weeks holiday in the
summer/easter when the kids are off school.

It may have escaped your notice, but there are more households in the
country _without_ children than those with.

They still take holidays in 'chunks'.

Think again. "Most people" do not have school-age children, so why
would they be taking their holidays "when the kids are off school."
You're claiming a majority where no such majority actually exists in
the population.

Also, not everyone takes
two-week holidays, kids or not.

Most do IME.

Well, in mine, most _don't_.

I guess if you work in retail (or hospitality) it's different, but
I would be suprised if almost every one else didn't fit the above.

I would suggest that if you work in just about every sector it's
different., and that you're just wrong.

I work in an 'office' environment and have done so for
20 years. Almost everone in the office takes a consecutive
holiday break.

Purely subjective. My subjective view is that the vast majority of
people I know take one or two separate weeks off, and/or a combination
of that and lost weekends dotted around the year. Personally, in 19
years of working I've only ever taken one two-week holiday.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 18:40:26 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


This is exactly right. I did not say they had to use 10 days
leave, but that they had a period of 2 weeks when the did
not go to work.

Even the maximum of 10 is not "2 weeks." Most years it's only 8 days -
i.e. one week and one day - as it is this year.

I accept that you live in a world where people have to work
over the Xmas period. But I work in a world where the company
shuts down for the whole period, sometimes for a full two weeks.
This has happend at every company that I have worked at
in the last 25 years (I freelance and average about one
company per year).

However, hardly anyone I know gets that.
FWIW It's bloody annoying and I hate having to waste
my holiday days in this way, so I don't see it as getting
a benefit.

It is my contention that more people work in my world than
in yours.

No-one is sensibly going to buy a monthly season on the 4th
of December as they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st

You mean "... _if_ they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st."

Well obviously. If you're nitpicking about this what else
have you nitpicked about?

(and in many cases longer).

You keep claiming this; I - and a number of other posters, it seems -
dispute it.



And most people take 2 (or more) weeks holiday in the
summer/easter when the kids are off school.

It may have escaped your notice, but there are more households in the
country _without_ children than those with.

They still take holidays in 'chunks'.

Think again. "Most people" do not have school-age children, so why
would they be taking their holidays "when the kids are off school."

I said in chunks, i.e a week or two at a time.
I accept that I made a mistake saying that everyone goes in the school
holiday (I forgot that the demographgic of newsgroups is younger
than the population!), but most peopel are still going to take a period
holiday to go somewhere or other.

You're claiming a majority where no such majority actually exists in
the population.

I still think it is.

12 million package holidays per year are sold so almost 25% of the
population go away on an *organised* holiday each yer
..
Most do IME.

Well, in mine, most _don't_.

Purely subjective. My subjective view is that the vast majority of
people I know take one or two separate weeks off,

Isn't this what I have been saying?

and/or a combination
of that and lost weekends dotted around the year. Personally, in 19

tim

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:15:53 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...

Purely subjective. My subjective view is that the vast majority of
people I know take one or two separate weeks off,

Isn't this what I have been saying?

Your original contention was:

(a) a two-week block at Christmas; and
(b) a two-week block at some other point in the year; and
(c) nothing else.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:15:53 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...

Purely subjective. My subjective view is that the vast majority of
people I know take one or two separate weeks off,

Isn't this what I have been saying?

Your original contention was:

(a) a two-week block at Christmas; and
(b) a two-week block at some other point in the year; and

of time off not holiday allocation.

(c) nothing else.

I certainly did not say this.

tim

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:15:53 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 18:40:26 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


This is exactly right. I did not say they had to use 10 days
leave, but that they had a period of 2 weeks when the did
not go to work.

Even the maximum of 10 is not "2 weeks." Most years it's only 8 days -
i.e. one week and one day - as it is this year.

I accept that you live in a world where people have to work
over the Xmas period. But I work in a world where the company
shuts down for the whole period, sometimes for a full two weeks.
This has happend at every company that I have worked at
in the last 25 years (I freelance and average about one
company per year).

I'm not doubting that. I'm doubting you using that as the basis to
claim that's what happens to "most people," i.e. the majority of the
population.

However, hardly anyone I know gets that.
FWIW It's bloody annoying and I hate having to waste
my holiday days in this way, so I don't see it as getting
a benefit.

It is my contention that more people work in my world than
in yours.

Clearly your world doesn't include the public, retail or service
sectors. Add to that a sizable chunk of other industries, and you'd
be hard-pressed to claim a majority.

No-one is sensibly going to buy a monthly season on the 4th
of December as they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st

You mean "... _if_ they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st."

Well obviously. If you're nitpicking about this what else
have you nitpicked about?

It's not nitpicking to point out a huge and fundamental flaw in your
"argument."

(and in many cases longer).

You keep claiming this; I - and a number of other posters, it seems -
dispute it.

And most people take 2 (or more) weeks holiday in the
summer/easter when the kids are off school.

It may have escaped your notice, but there are more households in the
country _without_ children than those with.

They still take holidays in 'chunks'.

Think again. "Most people" do not have school-age children, so why
would they be taking their holidays "when the kids are off school."

I said in chunks, i.e a week or two at a time.
I accept that I made a mistake saying that everyone goes in the school
holiday (I forgot that the demographgic of newsgroups is younger
than the population!), but most peopel are still going to take a period
holiday to go somewhere or other.

You're claiming a majority where no such majority actually exists in
the population.

I still think it is.

12 million package holidays per year are sold so almost 25% of the
population go away on an *organised* holiday each yer

None of which backs up your orginal proposition, i.e. that "most
people take 2 weeks holiday in the summer/easter when the kids are off
school." In fact, it does the opposite. More 40% of the UK adult
population does not take a holiday of four days or more at all. In
that context you'd be hard-pressed to claim that the remaining 60%
all take two-week holidays. The majority you claim does not exist.
Fact.

Most do IME.

Well, in mine, most _don't_.

Purely subjective. My subjective view is that the vast majority of
people I know take one or two separate weeks off,

Isn't this what I have been saying?

No, you claimed the majority of people are taking two-week holidays.
Not my use of the word "separate."
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:15:53 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


However, hardly anyone I know gets that.
FWIW It's bloody annoying and I hate having to waste
my holiday days in this way, so I don't see it as getting
a benefit.

It is my contention that more people work in my world than
in yours.

Clearly your world doesn't include the public, retail or service
sectors. Add to that a sizable chunk of other industries, and you'd
be hard-pressed to claim a majority.

I have worked in reatil, and ever there people booked their
two week summer holiday as the norm.

No-one is sensibly going to buy a monthly season on the 4th
of December as they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st

You mean "... _if_ they will not be using it from 25th to the 1st."

Well obviously. If you're nitpicking about this what else
have you nitpicked about?

It's not nitpicking to point out a huge and fundamental flaw in your
"argument."

It was not a flaw in my arguement, just something so blindingly
obviously a part of the arguement that I didn't bother to type it
in at the end.



12 million package holidays per year are sold so almost 25% of the
population go away on an *organised* holiday each yer

None of which backs up your orginal proposition, i.e. that "most
people take 2 weeks holiday in the summer/easter when the kids are off
school."

I have conceded the point about off school holidays,

a two week summer holiday is anywhere betweem May and
September

In fact, it does the opposite. More 40% of the UK adult
population does not take a holiday of four days or more at all.

Where did you find this fact? I have never worked at a place
where anybody never took full weeks off.

In
that context you'd be hard-pressed to claim that the remaining 60%
all take two-week holidays.

Obviously,


Purely subjective. My subjective view is that the vast majority of
people I know take one or two separate weeks off,

Isn't this what I have been saying?

No, you claimed the majority of people are taking two-week holidays.
Not my use of the word "separate."

No, I said the they were taking 2 weeks of holiday when they
did not need to buy a pass.

tim