On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:31:59 +0100, U n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote:

On 4/10/05 8:39 pm, in article
. com, "Mizter T"
wrote:

in cash single fares on the Tubes and buses, but the BBC News story
story contains the critical information on how to avoid these fares
increases. And that is to ***get an Oyster card and start using the Pre
Pay system to pay for single fares on the Tubes and buses***.

It is that simple.

Not if you get on the bus and find you are out of credit.

How is this different from getting on a bus and finding you are out of
money?

Or if you mislay your oyster.

How is this different from mislaying your wallet/purse?

Or if you rarely use public transport in London at all. Cash
fares are your only option; they should not be a rip off.

My mother lives in Newcastle. She visits London a few times a year.
She has an Oyster card (and it's registered!). It's not rocket
science.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:31:59 +0100, U n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote:

On 4/10/05 8:39 pm, in article
.com, "Mizter T"
wrote:

in cash single fares on the Tubes and buses, but the BBC News story
story contains the critical information on how to avoid these fares
increases. And that is to ***get an Oyster card and start using the Pre
Pay system to pay for single fares on the Tubes and buses***.

It is that simple.

Not if you get on the bus and find you are out of credit.

How is this different from getting on a bus and finding you are out of
money?

Because I can check first.

Remind me. Where do I get one of these Oyster credit
checkers to keep in my pocket?

tim

On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 18:41:43 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:31:59 +0100, U n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote:

On 4/10/05 8:39 pm, in article
s.com, "Mizter T"
wrote:

in cash single fares on the Tubes and buses, but the BBC News story
story contains the critical information on how to avoid these fares
increases. And that is to ***get an Oyster card and start using the Pre
Pay system to pay for single fares on the Tubes and buses***.

It is that simple.

Not if you get on the bus and find you are out of credit.

How is this different from getting on a bus and finding you are out of
money?

Because I can check first.

Remind me. Where do I get one of these Oyster credit
checkers to keep in my pocket?

So Oyster is crap because you can't keep track of something as simple
as how much pre-pay you have on it?
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 21:38:52 GMT,
(Nick Cooper) wrote:

So Oyster is crap because you can't keep track of something as simple
as how much pre-pay you have on it?

It is a fault, yes. It is one that TfL would be able to solve quite
easily by obtaining a quantity of pocket validators and selling them
at ticket offices (or by mail order) to those who want them. I
believe they cost under a tenner a shot.

Will people please stop getting so defensive and assuming that
pointing out a limitation of Oyster is a statement that it is "crap",
as this is not the case.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

So Oyster is crap because you can't keep track of something as simple
as how much pre-pay you have on it?

It is a fault, yes. It is one that TfL would be able to solve quite
easily by obtaining a quantity of pocket validators and selling them
at ticket offices (or by mail order) to those who want them. I
believe they cost under a tenner a shot.

Will people please stop getting so defensive and assuming that
pointing out a limitation of Oyster is a statement that it is "crap",
as this is not the case.

This is not a limitation. The balance comes up on the screen of the
bus and on the tube gates - there is no way that you can't have a
rough idea of what you have.

Failing that the website has your balance on it. If you need constant
reminding of your balance get a nice smart phone or one with pocket
windows on it so you can log in anywhere.

Finally, I just can't see TfL encouraging any kind of Oyster reader
technology other than the ones they have on their premises/vehichles.
As the balance and ticket information is actually held on the card,
conceivably someone could attempt to add tickets/balance at home
using modified equipment. I'm sure there is fantastic security in place
to stop this but issuing take-away devices capable of "talking" to the
Oyster card that could be adapted, copied or modified is not a good
way to keep the system secure.

"TKD" wrote in message
...


Will people please stop getting so defensive and assuming that
pointing out a limitation of Oyster is a statement that it is "crap",
as this is not the case.

This is not a limitation. The balance comes up on the screen of the
bus and on the tube gates - there is no way that you can't have a
rough idea of what you have.

Strangely enough I have a stored value card for my
local travel here. I don't use it to get to work, only for
days out at the weekend. I usually haven't the slightest
idea how much is on the card, even though I do get told
the remaining balance each time I use it, it really is
unrealistic to expect me to remember this from one
month to the next.

tim

In message , TKD
writes
This is not a limitation. The balance comes up on the screen of the bus
and on the tube gates - there is no way that you can't have a rough
idea of what you have.

I've never worked this out.

Although my balance always seems to come up on 'bus readers, only once
or twice have I seen it come up on a tube gate reader. I thought at
one time that that was because I's just topped up but maybe there's
another reason for its apparently randomly doing this?


Incidentally, as someone who by definition deal with large numbers of
visitors (tourists) to London, can I chime in with some observations
here?

I think that the concept of cheaper fares on Pre Pay is something very
difficult to explain to the casual traveller. Indeed, even the thought
of having to buy tickets from a roadside machine before climbing on a
'bus seems to put off many of my clients!

This morning I dropped an assorted group from the North of England and
North Staffordshire at Park Lane for the day. Some wanted to get to
Westminster Pier and others to Covent Garden.

The couple wanting Covent Garden were planning to go by bus but didn't
as they couldn't find any saying "Covent Garden" on the front. Hmmmmm.

The couple going to Westminster Pier had actually sought my advice about
going by 'bus. I sent them to catch a 159 (which remember didn't even
require buying a ticket from a roadside machine, being an RM route).

When they came back this afternoon, both couples turned out to have each
taken a taxi both ways (and complained about the cost!). They were
just too daunted by the thought of using public transport to even try.
It made me rather sad and when I have to explain the very high price of
casual tickets in the future or try to explain about Oyster Pre Pay,
well, I dread to think!

Now don't get me wrong,. I think that Oyster Pre-Pay is great
(although I feel it should have included NR from the start). Indeed,
it sometimes feels as though it was specially conceived just to suit my
personal needs! But it does daunt occasional travellers and will I
fear stop even more of them from using public transport.

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:22:04 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

Although my balance always seems to come up on 'bus readers, only once
or twice have I seen it come up on a tube gate reader. I thought at
one time that that was because I's just topped up but maybe there's
another reason for its apparently randomly doing this?

On the newer ticket gates, it appears on the screen. On the older
ones, it appears on the LCD display by the yellow Oyster pad.

Ian Jelf typed


I think that the concept of cheaper fares on Pre Pay is something very
difficult to explain to the casual traveller. Indeed, even the thought
of having to buy tickets from a roadside machine before climbing on a
'bus seems to put off many of my clients!

Would it be possible for you to buy a 'job lot' of unregistered Oyster
PrePay, with, say £5 credit on them for you to sell on to your clients,
after some explanation. There would be some faff factor, but possibly
less in the long run.

Those of your clients with Internet access could be advised to visit the
TfL website in advance, so they understand the system a bit better.
Slapping an Oyster on a reader should not be daunting.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Ian Jelf wrote in uk.transport.london on Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:22:04
+0100 :

I think that the concept of cheaper fares on Pre Pay is something very
difficult to explain to the casual traveller.

This is, IME, very true. We've reached the conclusion that we're going
to have to get a couple of prepay Oyster cards to give to our
out-of-town visitors so they can get out and about with us.

Indeed, even the thought
of having to buy tickets from a roadside machine before climbing on a
'bus seems to put off many of my clients!

The arcane art of getting on buses has been something that seems to
elude even people who have lived and worked in London for most of
their life. One friend who has just retired regards the red omnibus as
the work of the devil, despite having a strong preference for public
transport in general.

I don't know why this is; until I lived in London there were lots of
things/locations I didn't know about, spending many a happy hour going
to Notting Hill Gate to take the Circle Line back to Paddington until
I discovered where Lancaster Gate was. But in the general absence of a
tube route, I was still willing to strike out and take a chance that a
bus would get me where I wanted to go, or at the worst that if I
over-shot I could get one coming back, without being eaten by a
lurking grue.

--
hike
- a walking tour or outing, esp. of the self-conscious kind
Chambers 20th Century Dictionary