"Harry Spencer" wrote

This was in the 'Standard' on Monday. It said: "neither the machine
nor the driver warned her the payment had apparently failed." Reading
between the lines, that suggested she _didn't_ get a green light, but
she still boarded, without querying it with the driver.

Surely if something is not right, it is the driver's responsibility to
inform the passenger?

AIUI on all the bendy bus routes in London, and some others, the driver is
not responsible for fare matters. Passengers without Oyster or passes have
to buy their tickets from machines at the stops, and on bendy buses may
board at any door, not just the one by the driver. It is therefore important
that the Oyster reader maust make it clear to passengers whether or not
their Oyster has been accepted.

Peter

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:20:11 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:

TKD wrote:
So, what happens if the Bus card-reader is broken, and the driver
waves you on - happens a couple of times per month on the routes that
I use (308, 678). Take it I should insist on paying cash?
You can add the 8, 277 & 15 to that list and countless more probably.

The official TfL position is that you should pay the cash fare and request
a refund of the price difference from them...

Unless you were capped that day in which case you would be entitled to
a full refund.

Or if that journey was the last one that day and took you past a cap then
you would get a refund of any extra you paid in total beyond the cap.

Not a very elegant solution.
Surely since they advertise that Oyster Prepay is an accepted form of
payment, and given that you have enough credit to pay, it's totally
their problem...?

I have not seen any rules that advise on what to do if the Oyster card
or equipment is defective. It wasn't in the last Oyster or Fares booklet
that I've seen. Something has to be sorted out to explain how the whole
set up works because it is becoming overly complicated. Drivers and
passengers cannot be expected to comprehend all of the complexity and it
gets a whole pile worse come the January fares changes.

In Hong Kong it is easy - if the reader is defective they place a
special "bag" over it explaining the situation and requiring the
passenger to pay cash. The reader is a fully separate unit and is not
stuck on the side of a ticket machine (as they don't have such things in
HK just cash boxes). However it is extremely rare to ever encounter this
problem unlike in London where reliability seems to be hopeless and
there is no clear way of dealing with the problem.
(snip)

I wonder what stops London Buses requiring that an Oyster check is
carried out before the bus leaves the depot - and if the reader fails,
then a temporary reader should be provided (with the failed reader's pad
being covered up as you say they do in HK).

Presumably those ticket machines can be removed and plugged into a
computer. Surely temporary pads can be provided and connected to the
ticket machine?

Or maybe they could just address the apparent unreliability of the readers.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

"Harry Spencer" wrote

This was in the 'Standard' on Monday. It said: "neither the machine
nor the driver warned her the payment had apparently failed." Reading
between the lines, that suggested she _didn't_ get a green light, but
she still boarded, without querying it with the driver.

Surely if something is not right, it is the driver's responsibility to
inform the passenger?

AIUI on all the bendy bus routes in London, and some others, the driver is
not responsible for fare matters.

Although in the quoted case, on the 94, the driver is responsible.

Passengers without Oyster or passes have
to buy their tickets from machines at the stops, and on bendy buses may
board at any door, not just the one by the driver. It is therefore
important
that the Oyster reader maust make it clear to passengers whether or not
their Oyster has been accepted.

Couldn't agree more with that.

"Harry Spencer" typed


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

And if you are colour blind it is utterly useless. I have to rely on the
bleep because I cannot use the light.

And why oh why oh why does it make such a similar bleep when there is an
error? Surely a bleep for 'ok' and a bell or buzzer for comms
error/passback/no credit etc., would be far more logical!


A deeper 'uh-oh' sound, as featured on many quiz shows, might be more
effective...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:44:37 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote:

"Harry Spencer" typed


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

And if you are colour blind it is utterly useless. I have to rely on the
bleep because I cannot use the light.

And why oh why oh why does it make such a similar bleep when there is an
error? Surely a bleep for 'ok' and a bell or buzzer for comms
error/passback/no credit etc., would be far more logical!


A deeper 'uh-oh' sound, as featured on many quiz shows, might be more
effective...

We asked 100 people if your Oystercard was valid, and our survey
said...

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

James Farrar typed


A deeper 'uh-oh' sound, as featured on many quiz shows, might be more
effective...

We asked 100 people if your Oystercard was valid, and our survey
said...

I rest my case. I genuinely think an 'uh-oh' sound might wake both
passenger and driver. The current sounds are not effective this way.

I'm genuinely concerned that when/if the £50 Penalty Fare is introduced,
some people might get tripped up unawares.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

I would like to be able to buy an Oyster reader (similar to that used
by inspectors) so I can check that my Oyster has been processed
correctly after boarding a bus or tram.

The problem is you have no proof that you have paid - at least if I had
an Oyster reader if I see a problem with my card I can try to validate
my Oyster Card again.

OK it may be a dumb question, but I don't have an Oyster, but have seen them
in operation a lot. Ok I put a £10 credit or whatever on this chipped card
and start using it- it doesn't have a display on it, neither does the
reader, how do I know the remaining credit... It just seems odd that I could
have a valid oyster on the first part of my journey, which has 'expired' by
the time I get on the bus to make the last part of a journey...

"turbo" wrote

OK it may be a dumb question, but I don't have an Oyster, but have seen
them
in operation a lot. Ok I put a £10 credit or whatever on this chipped card
and start using it- it doesn't have a display on it, neither does the
reader, how do I know the remaining credit... It just seems odd that I
could
have a valid oyster on the first part of my journey, which has 'expired'
by
the time I get on the bus to make the last part of a journey...

You can have a valid oyster when you touch in at the beginning of a tube
journey, but when you come to touch out several zones away you might not
have enough credit. Something similar can happen if you have an oyster
season, with no prepay, but go beyond your zone. AIUI the system can cope
with this, allowing the oyster to become overdrawn to a limited extent
(though I don't think it will allow you to start a journey if you are
overdrawn or have no credit)..

Peter

In message , at
14:49:19 on Wed, 26 Oct 2005, turbo remarked:
OK it may be a dumb question, but I don't have an Oyster, but have seen them
in operation a lot. Ok I put a £10 credit or whatever on this chipped card
and start using it- it doesn't have a display on it, neither does the
reader, how do I know the remaining credit... It just seems odd that I could
have a valid oyster on the first part of my journey, which has 'expired' by
the time I get on the bus to make the last part of a journey...

If you know where to look, the gate at a tube station displays the
credit as you go through (I don't know is buses do the same). And you
can examine the card at any tube station ticket machine that has a
reader attached (which is at least one per station, I'd guess).
--
Roland Perry

Barry Salter wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:49:19 GMT, "turbo"
wrote:

OK it may be a dumb question, but I don't have an Oyster, but have
seen them in operation a lot. Ok I put a £10 credit or whatever on
this chipped card and start using it- it doesn't have a display on
it, neither does the reader, how do I know the remaining credit...
It just seems odd that I could have a valid oyster on the first
part of my journey, which has 'expired' by the time I get on the
bus to make the last part of a journey...

It depends on what mode of transport you're using (and in the case
of the tube, what type of ticket gate).

You can check your balance on the ticket machine at a newsagents,
or on the touchscreen machines at Underground stations.

When you touch your card on the reader on a bus or one of the
standalone validators at a tram stop, National Rail station, tube
station or DLR station, the display on the machine (assuming it's
not knackered) will tell you how much has been deducted and your
remaining balance.

Where's the display on the bus readers? I've never noticed one.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)