On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:57:39 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Barry Salter wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:49:19 GMT, "turbo"
wrote:

OK it may be a dumb question, but I don't have an Oyster, but have
seen them in operation a lot. Ok I put a £10 credit or whatever on
this chipped card and start using it- it doesn't have a display on
it, neither does the reader, how do I know the remaining credit...
It just seems odd that I could have a valid oyster on the first
part of my journey, which has 'expired' by the time I get on the
bus to make the last part of a journey...

It depends on what mode of transport you're using (and in the case
of the tube, what type of ticket gate).

You can check your balance on the ticket machine at a newsagents,
or on the touchscreen machines at Underground stations.

When you touch your card on the reader on a bus or one of the
standalone validators at a tram stop, National Rail station, tube
station or DLR station, the display on the machine (assuming it's
not knackered) will tell you how much has been deducted and your
remaining balance.

Where's the display on the bus readers? I've never noticed one.


I assume its the display on the ticket machine that only the driver
can see.


Dave

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
14:49:19 on Wed, 26 Oct 2005, turbo remarked:

OK it may be a dumb question, but I don't have an Oyster, but have
seen them
in operation a lot. Ok I put a £10 credit or whatever on this chipped
card
and start using it- it doesn't have a display on it, neither does the
reader, how do I know the remaining credit... It just seems odd that I
could
have a valid oyster on the first part of my journey, which has
'expired' by
the time I get on the bus to make the last part of a journey...


If you know where to look, the gate at a tube station displays the
credit as you go through (I don't know is buses do the same). And you
can examine the card at any tube station ticket machine that has a
reader attached (which is at least one per station, I'd guess).

An annoying bug (well, I consider it one) is that if you have a season
ticket on Oyster, PLUS some pre-pay (for paying out-of-zone extensions
automatically), then the gate does NOT tell you when your season is due
to expire.

However, if you JUST have the season, then it does tell you "Tkt 1 Nr
Expiry" (or similar).

In the latter scenario, you know when your season ticket is due to
expire, and can buy a new one.

In the former scenario, it doesn't tell you the season is about to run
out, and eats away at your Pre-Pay without telling you until it runs out.

This ends up being costly and annoying, and the only way round it seems
to be to make a note manually in your diary of when it the season is due
to run out.

Is there not a way this could be fixed?

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:32:25 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:
In Hong Kong it is easy - if the reader is defective they place a
special "bag" over it explaining the situation and requiring the
passenger to pay cash. The reader is a fully separate unit and is not
stuck on the side of a ticket machine (as they don't have such things in
HK just cash boxes). However it is extremely rare to ever encounter this
problem unlike in London where reliability seems to be hopeless and
there is no clear way of dealing with the problem.
(snip)

I wonder what stops London Buses requiring that an Oyster check is
carried out before the bus leaves the depot - and if the reader fails,
then a temporary reader should be provided (with the failed reader's pad
being covered up as you say they do in HK).

I would hope that a check is made of the ETM and reader whilst in the
depot. If the ETM is defective then I believe a swap out can be
undertaken with relative ease. It all depends when this is discovered
though - if it is 2 mins before the bus is due on the road then the
operator will suffer a greater penalty for no bus or a late bus than a
defective card reader. To the operator it's a no brainer in the context
of his contract payments.

However the concept of spare temporary readers that are not integral to
the ETM throws up a myriad of issues about spares holdings, control of
assets, additional power sockets on buses, how do you ensure that the
reader is talking to the ETM and vice versa. How do fit a spare reader,
possibly in a different position to the normal one, when there are anti
assault screens?

Not of these are impossible to solve but they are probably
disproportionately costly relative to the problem.

Presumably those ticket machines can be removed and plugged into a
computer. Surely temporary pads can be provided and connected to the
ticket machine?

Yes but see above.

Or maybe they could just address the apparent unreliability of the readers.

And this would be the right answer.

Having thought about this issue a bit more I wonder what happens if the
readers are defective on a bendy bus where you can board far away from
the driver. The driver has no cash and he's not allowed to sell you a
ticket even though there is an ETM on the bus. He cannot "call you back"
because he cannot hear a bleep on a remote reader. Anyone know what's
supposed to happen because I don't know? Can't see how TfL could take
anyone to court on the basis of the argument seemingly being used for
the route 94 issue.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005, Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

"Harry Spencer" typed

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

And if you are colour blind it is utterly useless. I have to rely on
the bleep because I cannot use the light.

And why oh why oh why does it make such a similar bleep when there is
an error? Surely a bleep for 'ok' and a bell or buzzer for comms
error/passback/no credit etc., would be far more logical!

A deeper 'uh-oh' sound, as featured on many quiz shows, might be more
effective...

I believe this is correctly known as a 'nlek-nerr'.

tom

--
Would you like to remember more?

An annoying bug (well, I consider it one) is that if you have a season
ticket on Oyster, PLUS some pre-pay (for paying out-of-zone extensions automatically), then the
gate does NOT tell you when your season is due to expire.

However, if you JUST have the season, then it does tell you "Tkt 1 Nr Expiry" (or similar).

The prepay doesn't affect if the "ticket soon expires" message appears, its
the type of gate you are going through. Old gates only show it when you
exit the system and you have to look to the side on the LCD screen.

"David" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:57:39 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Where's the display on the bus readers? I've never noticed one.

I assume its the display on the ticket machine that only the driver
can see.

On every OPO bus I've been on lately there is a display on the ticket
machine facing the passenger.

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:57:39 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Where's the display on the bus readers? I've never noticed one.

As others have said - on the top of the ticket machine in a toblerone
shaped unit. The display is very dark with no background illumination to
the black text or some form of LED.

The display on the bus this morning was showing complete garbage in its
static state and then showed a different form of complete garbage when a
card was read. No one would be able to determine what fare had been
deducted or their remaining balance from the display. The bus should not
really be in service with a defective machine like that because
fraudulent or erroneous transactions could be undertaken and passengers
would have no means of being alerted to such.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Roland Perry wrote:

In message c.uk, at
23:43:34 on Sun, 23 Oct 2005, Alan J. Flavell
remarked:
More interesting, though, I thought, was this hit from abroad:

http://www.metrolisboa.pt/normas_uk.htm

It looks as if *their* penalty fare is equivalent currently to EUR120,

Another case where if you are mugged on the train and your ticket is
stolen you get fined (there's no get-out clause for that situation).

But, report theft to the police, get a crime number, give this to TfL,
get your fine repaid.

Its a bit jumping through hoops, and I bet it involves hanging on the
end of a phone for a while.

Wife had a similar problem - plates stolen off our car, wife reports it
to police, gets crime number, drives to local DVLA office to get new
plates form, gets stopped by the police for driving without plates...

Looking back on it we laugh...

AE

wrote:

drives to local DVLA office to get new plates form

Why? I just went down to the shop when I lost a registration plate. I
needed my own documents, but nothing from the DVLA.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9633046.html
(47 539 at Shrewsbury, Aug 1982)

TKD wrote:
An annoying bug (well, I consider it one) is that if you have a season
ticket on Oyster, PLUS some pre-pay (for paying out-of-zone extensions automatically), then the
gate does NOT tell you when your season is due to expire.

However, if you JUST have the season, then it does tell you "Tkt 1 Nr Expiry" (or similar).


The prepay doesn't affect if the "ticket soon expires" message appears, its
the type of gate you are going through. Old gates only show it when you
exit the system and you have to look to the side on the LCD screen.

If you say you're sure, then I believe you, but I'm sure I've seen what
I described on the SAME set of gates.

Hmm, shall have to experiment next time I have no pre-pay left!