In article ,
(TKD) wrote:

The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year
so its hardly a moot point.

Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6

Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5

Not only recouped but a pound saved.

A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of
understanding!

The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home.
I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just
yet.

From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash
is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of
200%. If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and
explained properly by staff surely only the insane would resist
migration to Oyster?

it's called ripping off outsiders.

I don't follow. Who is "outside" the group of people that are
permitted to hold Oyster Cards? As I understand it anyone can have a
card.

Anyone not buying tickets often enough to bother to pay the £3 deposit,
learn how to use the card and remember how much credit is on the card
when they come to use it again 6 months later, for starters. I.e. many
people living outside London who can't get through tickets including the
tube.

Or people arriving at airports who can't buy through tickets to NSE
destinations. I can buy a ticket from Cambridge to Heathrow but not from
Heathrow to Cambridge.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 00:02 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(TKD) wrote:

The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year
so its hardly a moot point.

Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6

Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5

Not only recouped but a pound saved.

A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of
understanding!

The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home.
I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just
yet.

From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash
is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of
200%. If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and
explained properly by staff surely only the insane would resist
migration to Oyster?

it's called ripping off outsiders.

I don't follow. Who is "outside" the group of people that are
permitted to hold Oyster Cards? As I understand it anyone can have a
card.

Anyone not buying tickets often enough to bother to pay the £3 deposit,

If you're not bothered to pay a deposit you'll get back in as few as
two journeys, you deserve to pay through the nose.

learn how to use the card

Touch, beep.

and remember how much credit is on the card

Or bother to look at the screens on the gates.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

In message , James Farrar
writes
If you're not bothered to pay a deposit you'll get back in as few as
two journeys, you deserve to pay through the nose.
I don't understand the problem. I live 350 miles from London yet my
five or six trips a year there make oyster a good proposition, no
queuing, lower fares and capping. Then again I don't mind that someone
in TfL takes an interest in my London based movements to improve
services, it can only benefit me. I've nothing to hide either, my card
is registered to me at my home address, so if I am robbed of it or lose
it whilst in London I can get a refund. So I am happy to keep up to
£90 on it in pre-pay, then I'm never caught out.
--
Clive

The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year
so its hardly a moot point.

Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6

Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5

Not only recouped but a pound saved.

A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of
understanding!

The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home.
I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just
yet.

From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash
is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of
200%. If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and
explained properly by staff surely only the insane would resist
migration to Oyster?

it's called ripping off outsiders.

I don't follow. Who is "outside" the group of people that are
permitted to hold Oyster Cards? As I understand it anyone can have a
card.

Anyone not buying tickets often enough to bother to pay the £3 deposit,

Ahh. So those "outsiders" are people who are only likely to make only one
tube journey in their entire lifetime?

learn how to use the card and remember how much credit is on the card
when they come to use it again 6 months later, for starters.

Or maybe just overcome fear of change.

I.e. many people living outside London who can't get through tickets
including the tube.

I don't see what that has to do with a short single journey inside the zonal
area and only on the tube.

Or people arriving at airports who can't buy through tickets to NSE
destinations. I can buy a ticket from Cambridge to Heathrow but not from
Heathrow to Cambridge.

Again - How are people arriving at airports excluded from using an Oyster
Card should they wish to use the tube to go one stop?

Raoul wrote:

Phil Richards wrote:
So if TfL want to make their Oyster product sound like mobile phones,
perhaps they should consider another option whereby you get billed and pay
by direct debit (or credit card) at the end of each month according to your
usage.

Vastly increases the possibility of fraud and non-payment.

Amazing how telecom companies and the utilities etc. all manage to handle
regular monthly payments in arrears.

As for non payment, easy, as with mobile phones you don't pay you get cut
off. In the case of Oyster your card becomes deactivated the same way as if
you reported it lost or stolen.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

In article ,
(James Farrar) wrote:

Anyone not buying tickets often enough to bother to pay the £3
deposit,

If you're not bothered to pay a deposit you'll get back in as few as
two journeys, you deserve to pay through the nose.

learn how to use the card

Touch, beep.

and remember how much credit is on the card

Or bother to look at the screens on the gates.

Your lack of understanding is getting tiresome. Your circumstances are
different from those of the sort of users I'm thinking of.

People living in Network South East rarely need Oyster or cash fares
because Oyster isn't supported for most ticketing requirements because
of Travelcards. Therefore they will need singles only in exceptional
circumstances. This year that has required me to buy just two singles.
Next year I wouldn't recoup the £3 deposit on in those journeys.

I wouldn't go through gates with Oyster anything like often enough to
know *before* attempting a journey whether it has enough credit on it
maybe six months after I last used it.

As for tourists you have the reports here of a blue badge guide of the
problems many tourists have understanding transport systems in a foreign
language. Having had a similar converse experience in Warsaw I can
understand the problem.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(TKD) wrote:

Or people arriving at airports who can't buy through tickets to NSE
destinations. I can buy a ticket from Cambridge to Heathrow but not
from Heathrow to Cambridge.

Again - How are people arriving at airports excluded from using an
Oyster Card should they wish to use the tube to go one stop?

I can use Oyster for a ticket to Cambridge? Wow!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:56 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(James Farrar) wrote:

Anyone not buying tickets often enough to bother to pay the £3
deposit,

If you're not bothered to pay a deposit you'll get back in as few as
two journeys, you deserve to pay through the nose.

learn how to use the card

Touch, beep.

and remember how much credit is on the card

Or bother to look at the screens on the gates.

Your lack of understanding is getting tiresome.

Your anti-Oyster moaning got tiresome a longtime ago.

Your circumstances are
different from those of the sort of users I'm thinking of.

My circumstances are (like many) that I have an Annual Travelcard
loaded onto my Oystercard, but that (unlike you) I've not got an
irrational hatred for Oyster.

People living in Network South East rarely need Oyster or cash fares
because Oyster isn't supported for most ticketing requirements because
of Travelcards. Therefore they will need singles only in exceptional
circumstances.

Rarely != never.

This year that has required me to buy just two singles.
Next year I wouldn't recoup the £3 deposit on in those journeys.

You don't have to pay the £3 again next year!

I wouldn't go through gates with Oyster anything like often enough to
know *before* attempting a journey whether it has enough credit on it
maybe six months after I last used it.

Provided the credit is above the minimum fare, that doesn't matter
until you get to the end.

And then there's Auto top-up.

And as a last resort, you can always write your current balance (or
just a note saying "need to add credit" when appropriate) on a piece
of paper and keep it with your card at the end of your journey.


--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 00:02 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(TKD) wrote:

I don't follow. Who is "outside" the group of people that are
permitted to hold Oyster Cards? As I understand it anyone can have a
card.

Anyone not buying tickets often enough to bother to pay the £3 deposit,
learn how to use the card and remember how much credit is on the card
when they come to use it again 6 months later, for starters. I.e. many
people living outside London who can't get through tickets including the
tube.

I'm sure you will declare me a nutter but I have a HK Octopus card. I've
paid my deposit years ago and dipped into it many times - Octopus allows
negative value for one trip. It takes approximately 2 minutes to go to
the desk, get its status checked and reset if necessary [1] and value
added at HK International Airport. I have encountered no problems
whatsoever with doing this. Similarly I retain a RATP Mobilis card to
allow me to purchase one day tickets when I go to Paris.

Or people arriving at airports who can't buy through tickets to NSE
destinations. I can buy a ticket from Cambridge to Heathrow but not from
Heathrow to Cambridge.

I'll confess to being somewhat out of date but I thought that the new
TOMs at LUL stations had a much enhanced range of NSE destinations. I
would have thought Cambridge would be one such option. I also thought
National Rail had a ticket counter somewhere within Heathrow to deal
with the passengers who use the Rail Air link services and could
therefore sell through tickets.

I have to say that I really don't understand what form of ticketing
system you want. You repeatedly moan like hell about what exists today
saying that little or none of it works for you. Would you like an Oyster
card that would work in, to and from Cambridge or do you want Oyster
thrown in the bin and paper tickets retained?

[1] the card tracking system will lock you out of the system if there is
a very long gap in usage which there can be in my case as I typically
only go to HK once a year.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:12 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(TKD) wrote:

The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so
its hardly a moot point.

Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6

Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5

Not only recouped but a pound saved.

A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of
understanding!

The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home.
I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just yet.

From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash
is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of
200%. If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and
explained properly by staff surely only the insane would resist
migration to Oyster?

it's called ripping off outsiders.

I suppose my mother, who lives in Newcastle. would count as an
"outsider," except that she has - and happily uses - an Oyster card,
of course.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/