In message , Helen Deborah
Vecht writes
I think there *is* a potential problem for ill-informed visitors,
especially if they don't read English.

I think there's a problem for all visitors, because they won't easily be
able to use all the stored value (or get their deposit back). My wife
and I between us have at least half-a-dozen strippenkarts or metro cards
or similar for Washington DC and various European cities, each with a
bit of residual value. When next we visit it isn't at all clear whether
they are still valid, or whether we can top-up or not.

In one city I visited recently I was told that my old strip card was
still valid but only at the rate of two old strips to one new strip.
Inadvertently I had underpaid for a journey before I realised that -
fortunately no metro inspector caught me. I understand enough of
French and German to just about get the hang of their metro ticketing
rules, but all the same it's a real problem. In places, like Poland or
Hungary, where I don't understand the language at all, it's a serious
problem. No doubt for some visitors to London the same is true.

- the rules vary so much from one town to another, and are almost as
byzantine in their complexity as those of London, that it's vary hard to
remember them.

- I keep getting stored value left which I can't use after my trip is
over.

The Oyster card brings London into line with these other
tourist-unfriendly transport systems. This doesn't seem to me to be
much of an advance.


--
Clive Page

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
In message , Helen Deborah Vecht
writes
I think there *is* a potential problem for ill-informed visitors,
especially if they don't read English.

I think there's a problem for all visitors, because they won't easily be
able to use all the stored value (or get their deposit back). My wife and
I between us have at least half-a-dozen strippenkarts or metro cards or
similar for Washington DC and various European cities, each with a bit of
residual value. When next we visit it isn't at all clear whether they are
still valid, or whether we can top-up or not.

Can I just suggest that it is silly to buy strip cards in the
first place if you are unceratin that you are going to use them.

In many European towns the strip card discount is no more
than 10%. Risking wasting 50% of a strip ticket to save
10% just doesn't seem very sensible.

Buy single tickets, or if you want to make multiple journeys
a day pass, and if it costs you 10% more, so what?

tim

In message , "tim (moved to sweden)"
writes
Can I just suggest that it is silly to buy strip cards in the
first place if you are unceratin that you are going to use them.

In many European towns the strip card discount is no more
than 10%. Risking wasting 50% of a strip ticket to save
10% just doesn't seem very sensible.

Is that really so now? In London carnet tickets give you something
like a 30% discount, in Paris it was slightly more last time I was
there. Cities with strip cards like Munich and Amsterday seemed to be
giving similar discounts last time I visited - and if you are not sure
exactly how many trips you are going to make, it's very easy to end up
with unused strips. It's certainly easier than trying to find ticket
offices or machines which will sell you singles each time.

Back to the main point: visitors to London faced with a single fare
which is half the price or less when using an Oyster card will, in many
cases, try to grapple with the system, rather than purchase what will
seem to them outrageously expensive singles. And since the rules for
Oyster cards are too complicated even for experienced natives to grasp
in their full glory, what hope is there for the visitor for a couple of
days?



--
Clive Page

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
In message , "tim (moved to sweden)"
writes
Can I just suggest that it is silly to buy strip cards in the
first place if you are unceratin that you are going to use them.

In many European towns the strip card discount is no more
than 10%. Risking wasting 50% of a strip ticket to save
10% just doesn't seem very sensible.

Is that really so now? In London carnet tickets give you something like
a 30% discount, in Paris it was slightly more last time I was there.
Cities with strip cards like Munich and Amsterday seemed to be

In Munich a single ride is 2.20
2 strips of a strip-ticket is 2.00

giving similar discounts last time I visited - and if you are not sure
exactly how many trips you are going to make, it's very easy to end up
with unused strips. It's certainly easier than trying to find ticket
offices or machines which will sell you singles each time.

Don't they always have machines?

And with a day pass at 4.50, if you are sure that you are going
to do at least two trips (and most people *are* making at least
an out and back trip) you can buy one of these and at worse
you lose 0.50, far less than you can lose by buying a strip-card
and not using it.

Back to the main point: visitors to London faced with a single fare which
is half the price or less when using an Oyster card will, in many cases,
try to grapple with the system, rather than purchase what will seem to
them outrageously expensive singles. And since the rules for Oyster
cards are too complicated even for experienced natives to grasp in their
full glory, what hope is there for the visitor for a couple of days?

TBH, if they have any sense, they will look at the price of a
single (3.00) and the price of a ODTC (6.20) and buy the latter.

Tourists like an easy life, buying a Travelcard meets that in
spades.

tim

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:10:13 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

I think there's a problem for all visitors, because they won't easily be
able to use all the stored value (or get their deposit back).

Indeed. In Hong Kong, when you leave, you can simply hand back your
Octopus (similar to Oyster) card at the ticket office, and be given
back your deposit in cash, along with any value that was left on the
card. I don't see why they can't do the same here.

- I keep getting stored value left which I can't use after my trip is
over.

The Oyster card brings London into line with these other
tourist-unfriendly transport systems. This doesn't seem to me to be
much of an advance.

And presumably they see no reason to fix it, because they'd lose out
on all the stored value that they'd otherwise get to just keep.