On 29 Oct 2005 10:17:18 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:

Of course if it had been a new road scheme then they'd
probably be rubbing their hands with glee as all the Fulham
tractors would be able to get that little bit quicker to harrods.

It is worth stressing that a trolleybus scheme would require far more
minimalist (and much shorter-lived) construction compound facilities,

Trolleybuses have an image problem. The public would
probably just see them as another bus.
When Ken was running his fuel cell buses the other year I
didn't notice them packed to the rafters with happy eco
commuters. Trams though tend to get much more ridership
than a buses ever would - witness whats happened elsewhere
around the country particularly Nottingham. Would a trolleybus do the
same? Maybe for a short time for the
novelty value , but long term I doubt it. At the end of
the day they're just another uncomfortable , small capacity
(compared to a tram) bus albeit an electric one.

B2003

A number of issues to pick up on this thread that require a response so I'll
deal with these one at a time over the next few days. First of all this so
called image problem of trolleybuses. Just because we do not have any
trolleybuses in the UK, yet, it is a misconception that there is no "good
feel" factor aboyt this type of vehicle.

In Arnhem [olland] he transport operators have seen ridership increases in the
order of 17% on routes converted from diesels on a "like-for-like" basis. When
their 5 year "Trolley 2000" is completed the strategy is expected to see
passenger levels 21% higher than it would have been under the best type of
diesel buses. In Salzburg, Austria ridership increases have been 16% and the
city has recently started a similar trolleybus expansion which will include
several brand new trolleybus routes (one of which will be an express service
with the overhead wiring configured for overtaking) and converting several
more diesel routes to electric operation. These plans will mean that within
two years Salzburg will have achieved an almost total elimination of fossil
fuel powered buses from its streets.

Increases in ridership have also been noted in the USA, for instance Seattle
and San Francisco where experiences have been even more significant because
not only has it been found that electric buses will attract more passengers
than the diesels but also that replacing electric buses with diesels (even
temporarily) can lead to passengers pro-actively choosing to avoid the buses!

But then we are falling into the trap of only considering the vehicle as if
the trolleybus was nothing more than a bus requiring an external electricity
supply. A tramway, rather than a tram, is considered as a whole project with
high quality stops, traffic priorities, segregated lanes (where practicable)
etc. and therefore the term "trolleyway" should be used to indicate that the
same features are also provided, thus giving a step change in transit
provision and the "wow" factor that you seem to crave. Trackwork and
underground services diversions cost an absolute fortune for a tramway
schemes, an expense not necessary for trolleybuses.

25m long tri-axle trolleybuses run in Europe and can carry around 200
passengers, the use of such vehicles is currently not permitted in the UK but
there is no reason to believe that an application to run such vehicles here
would be refused. Capacity can be provided to meet demand through the use of
trolleybuses and they have better comfort levels than a any tram. Furthmore,
street running trams that don't have an exclusive use of the roadway will be
prone to more delays than the equivalent trolleybus.

Open your eyes and see the possabilities that trolleybuses provide at a
fraction of the cost of a tramway scheme. In europe they have, and are
reaping the benefits NOW. With no new tramway construction underway in the
UK, and unlikely to be for may years to come, if at all, there is only one
thing to look forward to, just more pollution with everyone getting nowhere
fast.

David Bradley