In message , at
00:37:00 on Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Colin Rosenstiel
remarked:
I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a
break of journey on the return journey.

How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to
Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I
checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules.

They claimed today the ticket only allows one tube journey, though the
barrier staff let me through anyway. The gate code was 51 (Already used
for 1 journey (single) or 2 journeys (return)) at entry and exit when I
resumed my journey.

I've had a similar problem. I forget the exact details, but probably it
was using the return half of the saver to catch a tube train (to the
central London national rail station) on the day after the ticket was
issued. ie 30 whole days before it might have expired.
--
Roland Perry

Paul Corfield wrote:

(snip)

You are entitled to one full journey on LUL on the outward and return
legs. The only way you could "break" a journey is at an out of station
interchange where the gates are configured to allow such a break but
with a time limit in place.
--
Paul C


Out of interest, do you know how long that time limit is?

I presume the same time limit applies for Oyster Pre-Pay in similar
out-of-staion interchange situations?

I've also wondered if Oyster Pre-Pay allows for such out-of-station
interchanges at more locations than paper ticketing would. An example -
I recently travelled from Harrow & Wealdstone to Euston (on
Silverlink), then on south via the Northern Line to Balham. I was
pleased to see the following when I checked my Oyster journey history
on a Tube ticket machine...

Harrow & Wealdstone - Euston
Harrow & Wealdstone - Balham

.... i.e. the whole journey of Harrow & Wealdstone to Balham had been
treated as one. I've never done the aforementioned journey on a £3.80
tube single ticket but if I did I would fear that it'd be swallowed by
the ticket gates at Euston with the presumption that I'd completed my
journey.

On 1 Nov 2005 10:54:53 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

Colin - just admit it. Tfl and LUL know you hate them, and they hate
you in return. Get a car.

Ha ha!

Though do bear in mind that car travel in London is not out of TfL's
reach, what with congestion charging, trunk routes and all traffic
lights in Greater London managed by TfL Street Management, red routes
administered by TfL and patrolled by TfL funded Met Police traffic
wardens, bus lane enforcement, the Woolwich ferry...

Ok yeah. They'll still get him. I was just lulling him into a false
sense of security :-)

I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets
allowed a break of journey on the return journey.

How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to
Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I
checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules.

From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15).

"Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the London
Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at
any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a Travelcard."

Oh sh*t!

:-)

I only became aware of it because I was using a tube between Farringdon and
Liverpool Street and decided to hop off at Moorgate to pop into M&S. As
Moorgate is extremely close to Liverpool Street I had no intention of
resuming my journey on the tube. My gate pass would not operate the exit
gates at Moorgate. Fair enough I suppose though I can't see what there
would be to lose by it allowing me to exit but not to enter again.

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:27:29 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

That's correct - you have never been able to break your journey on
the 'tube' leg of a NR ticket, it's only available for one underground
trip.

And I think it says something to that effect on the back of
(all/most?) NR tickets.

Not exactly, hence the confusion. What the ticket in question says is
this (it had a + on the face):

"Travel on Train Companies trains is subject to the National Rail
Conditions of Carriage and to the conditions of carriage of other
operators on whose services this ticket is valid." [LUL's in this case,
I presume] "This ticket is not transferable. Unless otherwise stated it
may be used on any Train Company's trains by any Permitted Route, and if
marked "+" on London Underground trains between train company stations
via any recognised route appropriate to the through journey being made
but is _not_ available for joining or alighting at an intermediate LRT
Underground station."

This would all be entirely clear were the destination not Underground
zones 1 and 2, which is not a train company station.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Graham J) wrote:

I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets
allowed a break of journey on the return journey.

How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to
Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I
checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules.

From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15).

"Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the London
Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at
any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a Travelcard."

Oh sh*t!

Of course, you will now volunteer to pay the Penalty Fare for the
journey you made without a valid ticket.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

In article ,
(Graham J) wrote:

I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets
allowed a break of journey on the return journey.

How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to
Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN
staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules.

From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15).

"Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the
London Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your
journey at any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a
Travelcard."

Oh sh*t!

:-)

I only became aware of it because I was using a tube between
Farringdon and Liverpool Street and decided to hop off at Moorgate to
pop into M&S. As Moorgate is extremely close to Liverpool Street I
had no intention of resuming my journey on the tube. My gate pass
would not operate the exit gates at Moorgate. Fair enough I suppose
though I can't see what there would be to lose by it allowing me to
exit but not to enter again.

I've had that trouble at Goodge Street once. I went back to Euston and
exited there. Your Moorgate problem sounds odd as it is a NR station,
though. My experience suggests LU doesn't insist on you exiting at the
right NR station for your journey.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Clive) wrote:

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
I have a car. It's unusable for journeys like the one I was making.
How so, about five or six times a year I travel from the Lake
District to Wandsworth (through Putney) then park up and use my
Oyster, until I leave the GLA again in my car. If I can do it, and
I'm not informed about London items because of my distance from the
Capital, so can you. Or is it just a whinge against big brother and
someone finding out where you've been, spending tax-payers money?
Come clean now, what are you hiding? You'll feel better when you've
got it off your chest.

I wasn't going to pay a congestion charge and extortionate parking
charges in Westminster when I went to the office on Monday on my way
home, that's why.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(James Farrar) wrote:

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Graham J) wrote:

I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets
allowed a break of journey on the return journey.

How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to
Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN
staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules.

From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15).

"Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the
London Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your
journey at any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a
Travelcard."

Oh sh*t!

Of course, you will now volunteer to pay the Penalty Fare for the
journey you made without a valid ticket.

The staff (plural) I spoke to accepted that it was a valid ticket.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

You are entitled to one full journey on LUL on the outward and return
legs. The only way you could "break" a journey is at an out of station
interchange where the gates are configured to allow such a break but
with a time limit in place.

Out of interest, do you know how long that time limit is?
I presume the same time limit applies for Oyster Pre-Pay in similar
out-of-staion interchange situations?
I've also wondered if Oyster Pre-Pay allows for such out-of-station
interchanges at more locations than paper ticketing would.

Aldgate Fenchurch Street becomes a single journey on Oyster but
Bank Fenchurch Street does not, which is odd as I seem to remember
Bank being a valid station for tube X-London transfer.

The time limit has been long enough for me to sit and have lunch at
Paddington between changing from H&C to Circle and still count as one
journey. It must be at least an hour.