The time wasted on opening and closing the tube doors has
always irritated me.

The train comes to a stop, we wait for the doors to open,
people get in and out, the doors close, and we wait for the train
to start. The Helsinki metro (very modern) gets it right, though the
plastic bucket seats become a pain in the sitting down place by the
end of the not very long line. Why can't London do the same? But I get
the feeling that some stock does open its doors as soon as the train
stops, though progress seems to be intermittent, and that's easier
than the closing phase. I estimate that 5 - 10 seconds per station
could be saved by cutting out these delays. It's not the difference
between night and day, but small improvements add up.

Michael Bell

--

"Michael Bell" wrote in message
...
The time wasted on opening and closing the tube doors has
always irritated me.

Yes I agree time is lost, bear in mind of course that on the Central the
circuitry has to 'make' when the train stops over the PAC [Platform ATO
Communications Transmit/Receive] at platform stopping marks.
It appears that soime stations take longer for the transmission to verify
this was more apparent some years ago whilst they got adjusted but today
there are few really lengthy waits, Holborn (westbound) I can think of but
one. Bank east used to be terrible sopme years back now, as the train
constantly missed the PAC and the delay caused as the driver had to engage
his door overide rotary switch now converting to a yellow 'mushroom' button
I believe.

Centaur wrote:
"Michael Bell" wrote in message
The time wasted on opening and closing the tube doors has
always irritated me.

Yes I agree time is lost, bear in mind of course that on the Central the
circuitry has to 'make' when the train stops over the PAC [Platform ATO
Communications Transmit/Receive] at platform stopping marks.

It used to be, in the days of guards, that opening would be timed so
that the front door of the pair slammed into its stop as the train came
to a halt, with the rear door completing its opening just after. No time
lost there!

No doubt there are at least two reasons why that wouldn't happen now.

Doors on the Madrid Metro open very fast compared to the leisurely
London ones - though new Central Line doors seem to be faster. (Haven't
observed 95 and 96 stock - are they faster than the older designs too?).
The speed the doors move must make a difference to overall dwell times.

Colin McKenzie

"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message
...
Centaur wrote:
"Michael Bell" wrote in message
The time wasted on opening and closing the tube doors has
always irritated me.

Yes I agree time is lost, bear in mind of course that on the Central the
circuitry has to 'make' when the train stops over the PAC [Platform ATO
Communications Transmit/Receive] at platform stopping marks.

It used to be, in the days of guards, that opening would be timed so
that the front door of the pair slammed into its stop as the train came
to a halt, with the rear door completing its opening just after. No time
lost there!

No doubt there are at least two reasons why that wouldn't happen now.

Doors on the Madrid Metro open very fast compared to the leisurely
London ones - though new Central Line doors seem to be faster. (Haven't
observed 95 and 96 stock - are they faster than the older designs too?).
The speed the doors move must make a difference to overall dwell times.

The District line has to have the slowest doors. The Jubilee and Northern
lines are pretty quick though.

Michael Bell wrote in message ...
The time wasted on opening and closing the tube doors has
always irritated me.

The train comes to a stop, we wait for the doors to open,
people get in and out, the doors close, and we wait for the train
to start. The Helsinki metro (very modern) gets it right, though the
plastic bucket seats become a pain in the sitting down place by the
end of the not very long line. Why can't London do the same? But I get
the feeling that some stock does open its doors as soon as the train
stops, though progress seems to be intermittent, and that's easier
than the closing phase. I estimate that 5 - 10 seconds per station
could be saved by cutting out these delays. It's not the difference
between night and day, but small improvements add up.

I'm not sure theres too many ways to speed things up in the rush hour but
in the quiet periods it does seem a bit silly to still have that 5 second
bleep before the doors close when its patently obvious no one else is going
to get in or out. They seem to have solved the problem in a novel way in
New York , some of the doors on the cars shut so viciously people make damn
sure they're out of the way when they start to close!

B2003

I'd say the Piccadilly has the fastest doors .. and the shortest "doors stay
open" times as well .. about 16 second on average.

Not only are the District ones the slowest to open, but in my timings they
stay open the longest as well, 28 seconds on average per stop.

Having said that, I was coming down an empty Upminster train the other day
to Whitechapel, the train was really empty, and the driver was opening the
doors before the train had come to a stop. This was the first time I'd
ever seen this on a D stock before.


The District line has to have the slowest doors. The Jubilee and Northern
lines are pretty quick though.

"Centaur" wrote in message
...

"Michael Bell" wrote in message
...
The time wasted on opening and closing the tube doors
has always irritated me.

Yes I agree time is lost, bear in mind of course that on the Central
the circuitry has to 'make' when the train stops over the PAC
[Platform ATO Communications Transmit/Receive] at platform stopping
marks.

IMHO there's no "of course" about this delay. Isn't it possible to detect
that the train has stopped and that it's in the correct position in a small
fraction of a second? A delay of 2 seconds per station means you need an
extra train on the Central line, so it's not trivial.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Centaur wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
...
Isn't it possible to detect
that the train has stopped and that it's in the correct
position in a small fraction of a second?

No its not, believe it or not. There had been a real
problem about a year ago following a software update on the
trains in copnnection with making ATO braking smoother
which now seems to have been rectified by lots of tweaking.
They way they explained it, to the simple minded (like me),
was that when the train berthed on the PAC a series of
event checks are made, up to 10 different things, including
what train it actually is, where its going, load weighing,
oh and many more I can't even begin to think of, but one of
them is Doors Opening.

What was happening, was, that on some headwall stops at the
PAC, the doors opening 'event' simply got missed and the
whole process had to return again to the beginning. It
depended a great deal on where the train was. If it was at
a station where there was a route diverge ahead then the
event took longer, sometimes many seconds. I think I
counted up to 10seconds on one occasion at East Acton
westbound but in general when this happened it was
definitely several seconds. It was a real pain because the
driver didn't know whether to operate the override switch
or not as the doors wouldn't open and passengers had to
wait thinking what the heck was wrong.

Thankfully new software seems to have rectified this
problem today but it took many months. However it does
serve to show how your point about, "Isn't it possible to
detect that the train has stopped and that it's in the
correct position in a small fraction of a second?" isn't
all its cracked up to be.10 years on and the 1992 stock
have been an absolute nightmare apart from the Chancery
Lane incident.

Surely you can't find anything else to ask?
DaveR

When are they bringing back real trains, such as 1923 Stock?

"
When are they bringing back real trains, such as 1923 Stock?

Yeah, Wouldn't that be just terrific? unfortunately, on the Central at
least, no conventional trains can ever run again,as they took all the
trainstops out. Also a Pre 38 'standard' motor would need to be 'caged' in
the switchgear compartment as regulations today don't allow 630v about floor
level. Have you ever seen the size of them compressors? Now THEY are real
trains. Would it be even possible to get the brake linings today, either,
one asks?

They do have several cars of reclaimed IOW Pre-38 standards, as I'm sure
many are aware sitting derelict in, was it Upminster or Acton depots? but
no money or volunteers seem to be interested enough to refurbish them.
Forget steam, Epping - Ongar could be put to good use here!
DR

"Centaur" wrote in message
...
DaveR
I'm going to change my nick to something more appropriate to the newsgroup.
So from now on "Centaur" is "Pre-38."
I'll have to remember to change it when I post to other newsgroups. I don't
think there is any other way in OE?
Many thanks
DaveR