"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
And why does a ticket (e.g. a Saver Return) to Putney (SWT) cost so
much
more than one to Underground Zones 1 and 2?

That annoys me too! I think to Putney we pay three bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer
3. London - Putney

Wheras to East Putney we pay two bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer

It's an irritating pricing structure because there are many journeys
from the Putney area to Central London which are much quicker and much
less congested as Train + Tube rather than Tube + Tube + Tube. But
the quicker and less congested one costs about twice as much

Indeed. So when is Ken going to sort this out?



When(/if) he gets given any kind of power over the NR fare structure.
Obviously TfL would prefer all rail travel within the zones to be ticketed
in the same way as Tube/DLR, but the London TOCs aren't keen on this...

--
John Band
astic - delete iastic to reply

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:51:04 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

My Cambridge to Underground Zones 1 & 2 tickets don't get eaten at
East Putney which is much more baffling.

Only because you've forgotten the answer! This was covered in a thread
you initiated here in January 2003, which included these two
explanations:

From Clive Feather, 7 Jan 2003:
"The magnetic code contains a common portion, an LU portion, and a
National Rail porton. To a first approximation, LU gates don't
understand the NR bit of the ticket and vice versa; they'll simply note
that both parts are marked active and play safe, giving you the ticket
back."

From Paul Corfield, 6 Jan 2003:
"Any ticket with any National Rail validity will always be given back.
The gate cannot know if you have used the NR validity or even if it is
"beyond" the exit point of the gate itself - e.g. you used the NR bit
between Cambridge and London but the ticket isn't reset to reflect this.
You then enter the LUL system and record an entry. The gate at East
Putney says "has this ticket got the right validity from where it
entered (LUL) to where I am? Oh yes that's OK. Oh look this has some NR
validity - don't know where but I'd better give the ticket back in case
that's the next bit of the journey". "

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....7659a88aadfe9/

Which I have, in effect, just repeated. And we get another negative
response and then a demand for another explanation for something that no
one on this group is accountable for. I give up.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

John Band wrote:
"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
And why does a ticket (e.g. a Saver Return) to Putney (SWT) cost
so much
more than one to Underground Zones 1 and 2?

That annoys me too! I think to Putney we pay three bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer
3. London - Putney

Wheras to East Putney we pay two bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer

It's an irritating pricing structure because there are many
journeys from the Putney area to Central London which are much
quicker and much less congested as Train + Tube rather than Tube
+ Tube + Tube. But the quicker and less congested one costs
about twice as much

Indeed. So when is Ken going to sort this out?

When(/if) he gets given any kind of power over the NR fare
structure. Obviously TfL would prefer all rail travel within the
zones to be ticketed in the same way as Tube/DLR, but the London
TOCs aren't keen on this...

Meanwhile, the quicker, less congested, and mostly air-conditioned
service costs more. Is that so unfair?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

John Band wrote:
"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
And why does a ticket (e.g. a Saver Return) to Putney (SWT) cost
so much more than one to Underground Zones 1 and 2?

That annoys me too! I think to Putney we pay three bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer
3. London - Putney

Wheras to East Putney we pay two bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer

It's an irritating pricing structure because there are many
journeys from the Putney area to Central London which are much
quicker and much less congested as Train + Tube rather than Tube
+ Tube + Tube. But the quicker and less congested one costs
about twice as much

Indeed. So when is Ken going to sort this out?

When(/if) he gets given any kind of power over the NR fare
structure. Obviously TfL would prefer all rail travel within the
zones to be ticketed in the same way as Tube/DLR, but the London
TOCs aren't keen on this...

Meanwhile, the quicker, less congested, and mostly air-conditioned
service costs more. Is that so unfair?

Aircon to Putney? Don't make me laugh!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:51:04 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

My Cambridge to Underground Zones 1 & 2 tickets don't get eaten at
East Putney which is much more baffling.

Only because you've forgotten the answer! This was covered in a
thread you initiated here in January 2003, which included these two
explanations:

From Clive Feather, 7 Jan 2003:
"The magnetic code contains a common portion, an LU portion, and a
National Rail porton. To a first approximation, LU gates don't
understand the NR bit of the ticket and vice versa; they'll simply
note that both parts are marked active and play safe, giving you the
ticket back."

From Paul Corfield, 6 Jan 2003:
"Any ticket with any National Rail validity will always be given
back. The gate cannot know if you have used the NR validity or even
if it is "beyond" the exit point of the gate itself - e.g. you used
the NR bit between Cambridge and London but the ticket isn't reset to
reflect this. You then enter the LUL system and record an entry. The
gate at East Putney says "has this ticket got the right validity from
where it entered (LUL) to where I am? Oh yes that's OK. Oh look this
has some NR validity - don't know where but I'd better give the
ticket back in case that's the next bit of the journey". "

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....owse_frm/threa
d/41a7659a88aadfe9/

Which I have, in effect, just repeated. And we get another negative
response and then a demand for another explanation for something that
no one on this group is accountable for. I give up.

That NR and LUL validity are handled separately I can understand but not
realising where the ticket is actually valid to is harder to cope with.
If it's a ticket to an LUL destination surely it's not that hard to work
out it's done it job on exiting at LUL?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 01:14 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:51:04 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

My Cambridge to Underground Zones 1 & 2 tickets don't get eaten at
East Putney which is much more baffling.

Only because you've forgotten the answer! This was covered in a
thread you initiated here in January 2003, which included these two
explanations:

From Clive Feather, 7 Jan 2003:
"The magnetic code contains a common portion, an LU portion, and a
National Rail porton. To a first approximation, LU gates don't
understand the NR bit of the ticket and vice versa; they'll simply
note that both parts are marked active and play safe, giving you the
ticket back."

From Paul Corfield, 6 Jan 2003:
"Any ticket with any National Rail validity will always be given
back. The gate cannot know if you have used the NR validity or even
if it is "beyond" the exit point of the gate itself - e.g. you used
the NR bit between Cambridge and London but the ticket isn't reset to
reflect this. You then enter the LUL system and record an entry. The
gate at East Putney says "has this ticket got the right validity from
where it entered (LUL) to where I am? Oh yes that's OK. Oh look this
has some NR validity - don't know where but I'd better give the
ticket back in case that's the next bit of the journey". "

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....owse_frm/threa
d/41a7659a88aadfe9/

Which I have, in effect, just repeated. And we get another negative
response and then a demand for another explanation for something that
no one on this group is accountable for. I give up.

That NR and LUL validity are handled separately I can understand but not
realising where the ticket is actually valid to is harder to cope with.
If it's a ticket to an LUL destination surely it's not that hard to work
out it's done it job on exiting at LUL?

The LU gate does NOT read the NR bit. It just knows from the ticket type
that it has some validity on NR somewhere. That may or may have been
used, it may or may not start at the station where you exit LU or you
may need to walk down the street to a NR Station as at East Putney /
Putney. As the gate cannot know if you still need to use the NR portion
it has to default to giving you the ticket back. It reads the LU bit
which on your ticket would be a trip in Z12. The gate will read an entry
point into LU within those zones and then check to see if where you are
exiting is also in Z12. If it is then the LU bit is used up, the gate
opens, gives you your ticket back and off you go.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 01:14 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

That NR and LUL validity are handled separately I can understand but
not realising where the ticket is actually valid to is harder to
cope with. If it's a ticket to an LUL destination surely it's not
that hard to work out it's done it job on exiting at LUL?

The LU gate does NOT read the NR bit. It just knows from the ticket
type that it has some validity on NR somewhere. That may or may have
been
used, it may or may not start at the station where you exit LU or you
may need to walk down the street to a NR Station as at East Putney /
Putney. As the gate cannot know if you still need to use the NR
portion it has to default to giving you the ticket back. It reads the LU
bit which on your ticket would be a trip in Z12. The gate will read an
entry point into LU within those zones and then check to see if where
you
are exiting is also in Z12. If it is then the LU bit is used up, the
gate
opens, gives you your ticket back and off you go.

So it doesn't even know where the NR bit is, e.g. whether it logically
comes before or after the LU journey? Or where the LU & ticket
destinations are? How strange.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message .com,
Andrea writes
Are there ever any ticket inspections on the London Underground? Yes,
there are barriers at all stations but I would have thought that LUL
would also have roving patrols of inspectors randomly checking tickets
on board tube trains to catch any fare dodgers?


Now you mention it I seem to constantly get stopped by inspectors on
WAGN, but it must be 5 years or more since I was stopped by an inspector
on the tube.


--
Edward Cowling London UK

In article ,
(Edward Cowling London UK) wrote:

In message .com,
Andrea writes
Are there ever any ticket inspections on the London Underground?
Yes, there are barriers at all stations but I would have thought that
LUL would also have roving patrols of inspectors randomly checking
tickets on board tube trains to catch any fare dodgers?

Now you mention it I seem to constantly get stopped by inspectors on
WAGN, but it must be 5 years or more since I was stopped by an
inspector on the tube.

They must have migrated from the Cambridge service to your part of WAGN
then.

I used to get checked every day I travelled on the 10:15 from Cambridge
to King's Cross, often with more than one inspector travelling. Even
when the 10:15 became an 8 car train recently they had at least one in
each half.

But since`half term they seem to have given up. I noticed a poster at
the Cross this week advertising for ticket inspectors (or whatever the
job title is these days).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:16 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

So it doesn't even know where the NR bit is, e.g. whether it logically
comes before or after the LU journey? Or where the LU & ticket
destinations are? How strange.

Not strange at all given that gates were not something entertained by
British Rail when LU decided to implement UTS. Why should a gate on the
LUL system need to know about Glasgow or Barnes or Leeds? - all NR
destinations that can appear on a ticket that might be shoved through a
LU gate. All it needs to check are the bits related to the LUL journey
and that is typically just in Zone 1. It would make the ticketing
system unnecessarily complex if it had to recognise NR destinations
because it would also need to recognise routing and the NR system can
barely cope with its own routing guide never mind foisting it on LU.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!