In message , Paul Corfield
writes

Sorry but in the example of that I am most familiar with which is
Walthamstow Central, the announcements have been very clear and people
carry on in robot mode and take no notice. I have even told people
alighting from a One West Anglia train that there's no tube and still
they get off and carry on. It is not always the fault of the station
staff or the driver. Some people will not be told and you cannot assume
that every announcement is telling you something incorrect.


You mean like on the 7th July telling everyone it was an electrical
problem for at least an hour !!

Something is woefully wrong with communications on our trains. Whether
it means better radios, or a complete revamp, it needs doing.

--
Edward Cowling London UK

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

If you were told there was a fire would you ignore it and carry on
towards the hazard?

A bit of balance does no one any harm.

You've got me ticked off now :-)

Ok, I'll give you an example from the week before last.

Monday - Went to Palmers Green to get the WAGN service to Moorgate. Told
by station announcer that all services were going to Kings Cross because
of problems at Drayton Park - at this half the people trot off for the
bus. When the train comes the driver tells us to ignore all that, as
he's going to Moorgate. We arrive at Finsbury Park to hear lots of
announcements saying it's a Kings Cross train, station board says
Moorgate, driver laughs and tells us they can say what they want, but
he's going to Moorgate - We arrive on time at Moorgate. How about all
those poor sods queuing for the bus at Palmers Green ??!!

Tuesday - Same announcement about problems at Drayton Park and all
services going to Kings Cross. Driver says the same today. We arrive at
Finsbury Park and the station board says Moorgate, the announcer is
hollering Kings Cross, and then the driver.... tells us all to get off
as he's terminating there !!

So please don't get patronising when I say I'd believe Lord Archer is a
saint before I'd take anything said by station announcers as gospel !!

--
Edward Cowling London UK

This type of thing is common. It happens all the time
When a problem arises its a dynamic situation, it can fix itself in
seconds...or last an hour. Would you prefer it then if when a problem arose
we anounced that the service will not start for say, an hour. Then if the
problem fixed itself in 5 minutes we would not run trains until the hour
ewas up so that you could say yes, we were right it was an hour?
That way we would always be right. No one would get anywhere but hey....you
would be happy.

Mal

"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message
...
In message , Paul Corfield
writes

If you were told there was a fire would you ignore it and carry on
towards the hazard?

A bit of balance does no one any harm.

You've got me ticked off now :-)

Ok, I'll give you an example from the week before last.

Monday - Went to Palmers Green to get the WAGN service to Moorgate. Told
by station announcer that all services were going to Kings Cross because
of problems at Drayton Park - at this half the people trot off for the
bus. When the train comes the driver tells us to ignore all that, as he's
going to Moorgate. We arrive at Finsbury Park to hear lots of
announcements saying it's a Kings Cross train, station board says
Moorgate, driver laughs and tells us they can say what they want, but he's
going to Moorgate - We arrive on time at Moorgate. How about all those
poor sods queuing for the bus at Palmers Green ??!!

Tuesday - Same announcement about problems at Drayton Park and all
services going to Kings Cross. Driver says the same today. We arrive at
Finsbury Park and the station board says Moorgate, the announcer is
hollering Kings Cross, and then the driver.... tells us all to get off as
he's terminating there !!

So please don't get patronising when I say I'd believe Lord Archer is a
saint before I'd take anything said by station announcers as gospel !!

--
Edward Cowling London UK

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:41:29 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

Sorry but in the example of that I am most familiar with which is
Walthamstow Central, the announcements have been very clear and people
carry on in robot mode and take no notice. I have even told people
alighting from a One West Anglia train that there's no tube and still
they get off and carry on. It is not always the fault of the station
staff or the driver. Some people will not be told and you cannot assume
that every announcement is telling you something incorrect.


You mean like on the 7th July telling everyone it was an electrical
problem for at least an hour !!

This has been done to death. I would invite anyone with appropriate
knowledge of the railway who was presented with the events and
information as it came in to reach any other conclusion than the one
about a power problem.

You are making statements with the benefit of hindsight. You were not
present as the events unfolded within the organisation so don't make
simplistic statements.

God help us if there is a next time but I look forward to your
announcements being made on the public address system and on national TV
that completely and fully diagnoses the events given your clear and
obvious omniscience.

Something is woefully wrong with communications on our trains. Whether
it means better radios, or a complete revamp, it needs doing.

As you obviously have the answer to everything as you feel able to offer
criticism so freely then I'm sure the MD of LUL will receive your
proposal with open arms.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:57:27 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

If you were told there was a fire would you ignore it and carry on
towards the hazard?

A bit of balance does no one any harm.

You've got me ticked off now :-)

Good. That makes us equal given your remarks about 7 July which are a
comment too far.

So please don't get patronising when I say I'd believe Lord Archer is a
saint before I'd take anything said by station announcers as gospel !!

Now go and boil your head.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

God help us if there is a next time but I look forward to your
announcements being made on the public address system and on national TV
that completely and fully diagnoses the events given your clear and
obvious omniscience.

Again smart arse patronising comments about the poor old public who have
to travel on these part privatised, part god knows what transport
systems.

We're not talking about a scout jumble sale, where if the tanoy system
doesn't work we all say "good effort" and smile benevolently.

This is the transport for one of the busiest cities in the world !!

There should be not good communications, but first bloody rate
communications at all times. I'm beginning to think the RMT have a point
about striking to get safety issues looked at.... nothing else seems to
get it done.


--
Edward Cowling London UK

In message , Mal
writes
This type of thing is common. It happens all the time
When a problem arises its a dynamic situation, it can fix itself in
seconds...or last an hour. Would you prefer it then if when a problem arose
we anounced that the service will not start for say, an hour. Then if the
problem fixed itself in 5 minutes we would not run trains until the hour
ewas up so that you could say yes, we were right it was an hour?
That way we would always be right. No one would get anywhere but hey....you
would be happy.


So you're admitting my point that a huge number of the announcements are
just plain wrong. Maybe that's ok at the local jumble sale, but not on
the public transport system.

Especially after all the smart arse comments about dumb old Joe public
ignoring announcements.

Of course they ignore them! They realise many are complete and utter
crap.

--
Edward Cowling London UK

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

Especially after all the smart arse comments about dumb old Joe public
ignoring announcements.

Of course they ignore them! They realise many are complete and utter
crap.

In order to decide that they first have to listen to them. Many don't,
they're too busy chatting or listening to personal stereos or whatever.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 20:00:06 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

God help us if there is a next time but I look forward to your
announcements being made on the public address system and on national TV
that completely and fully diagnoses the events given your clear and
obvious omniscience.

Again smart arse patronising comments about the poor old public who have
to travel on these part privatised, part god knows what transport
systems.

Not patronising at all. You are sitting in judgement. Therefore I assume
you know what needs to be done. What technically has to be done and what
is not being done? What are the safety issues to which you refer?

I'm interested to know given that public address systems are being
replaced or upgraded, we're getting a new integrated radio system
installed, there are the new Home Office sponsored emergency service
radio systems as well. I'm also interested to know what part of the
emergency response to the terrorist events was mishandled where
apparently our communications were so inadequate. Strange that we got
several hundred thousand people off the network without injuring anyone
during that exercise.

I notice you declined to comment on my response to the 7th July
incidents - why is that then? Am I right or do you have evidence that
refutes what I said?

You seem to be confusing equipment with the fluidity of events in the
midst of what was a national emergency. Do you seriously expect
communications to be perfect in such an environment?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

No Edward...thats not what i said at all.
When an anouncement is put together....its 99% certain its correct. In the
time it takes to get the info to all concerned....and we do have multicall
systems so not 1 person is siting making all the calls, the situation could
change.
I said, Would you prefer each incident had a standard time of closure so
that you could say we were right and be a happy chappy.
You didnt answer.
What jumble sales have you been to?

Mal

"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message
...
In message , Mal
writes
This type of thing is common. It happens all the time
When a problem arises its a dynamic situation, it can fix itself in
seconds...or last an hour. Would you prefer it then if when a problem
arose
we anounced that the service will not start for say, an hour. Then if the
problem fixed itself in 5 minutes we would not run trains until the hour
ewas up so that you could say yes, we were right it was an hour?
That way we would always be right. No one would get anywhere but
hey....you
would be happy.


So you're admitting my point that a huge number of the announcements are
just plain wrong. Maybe that's ok at the local jumble sale, but not on the
public transport system.

Especially after all the smart arse comments about dumb old Joe public
ignoring announcements.

Of course they ignore them! They realise many are complete and utter
crap.

--
Edward Cowling London UK