In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article .com,
(TheOneKEA) wrote:

John Rowland wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
This is in the latest Modern Railways and is tied
in with TfL being given the Silverlink Metro franchise
to manage by the DfT. If DfT agree I think you will
see a lot of interesting things emerging. The
envisaged eventual service pattern across
the WLL, NLL and GOBLIN is most intriguing.

What did they suggest, and where did the suggestion emerge from?

- 4tph Richmond to Stratford via NLL and Clapham Junction and 4tph
Clapham Junction to Stratford via WLL and NLL; 8tph between Kensal
Rise and Stratford
- removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL by upgrading alternate
routes
- OHLE on the GoBLin, allowing through electric freight services
from the LT&SR to the WCML
- 6tph Bakerloo service to Watford Junction

The resulting service pattern is hoped to be:

4tph Richmond to Stratford
4tph Clapham Junction to Stratford
2tph Queens Park to Stratford via Primrose Hill and Camden Road
2tph Clapham Junction to Barking
6tph Queens Park to Watford Junction

yielding 10tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford, with 2tph
turning left at Gospel Oak and 2tph merging from the right at
Camden Road. Throw in a reopened Primrose Hill NLR, a reopened
Tufnell Park NLR, a reopened York Way NLR, a _sensible_ re-zoning
in the Hampstead area and TfL London Rail would be sitting on a
high-capacity diversionary route that provides onward links between
the GWML, WCML and SW Reading lines and the MML, ECML, GEML and
Stratford City, without going through Zone 1.

My question though is how they're going to fit 10tph, some of it
longish electric through freight, on the Gospel Oak - Willesden
corridor? That section was never blessed with four-tracking...

(Info taken from "All change at Silverlink Metro", Modern Railways,
December 2005).

5000 extra lorries on the A14 past Cambridge. :-(((

5000 per what period of time?

I forget.

And why does that follow from the previous post?

Blocking the W10 gauge container train route from Felixstowe to the West
Midlands will case massive diversion to road onto the trunk road which
already has one of the highest proportions of lorries on one of the
busiest roads in the country.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 5 Dec 2005 15:11:04 -0800, "TheOneKEA" wrote:

The resulting service pattern is hoped to be:

4tph Richmond to Stratford
4tph Clapham Junction to Stratford
2tph Queens Park to Stratford via Primrose Hill and Camden Road
2tph Clapham Junction to Barking
6tph Queens Park to Watford Junction

It's good that there's going to be through service onto the GOBLIN
from the likes of Willesden Junction and West Hampstead. At the moment
you have to wait around at Gospel Oak while changing trains, and worry
about being stranded there for 30 mins if a train is cancelled or your
NLL train is delayed and misses the connection.

Throw in a reopened Primrose Hill NLR, a reopened Tufnell Park
NLR, a reopened York Way NLR,

Are these planned, or just wishful thinking? (Even if the latter,
Primrose Hill at least seems extremely likely.)

Incidentally, I've noticed that one of the Bakerloo line diagrams at
Baker Street (there are probably plenty of others) is old enough to
still show it going all the way to Watford Junction, with a panel
covering everything north of Harrow & Wealdstone. I'm already
wondering if they'll simply remove the panel, rather than performing a
blanket replacement of all the diagrams on the line...

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article .com,
(TheOneKEA) wrote:

John Rowland wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
This is in the latest Modern Railways and is tied
in with TfL being given the Silverlink Metro franchise
to manage by the DfT. If DfT agree I think you will
see a lot of interesting things emerging. The
envisaged eventual service pattern across
the WLL, NLL and GOBLIN is most intriguing.

What did they suggest, and where did the suggestion emerge from?

- 4tph Richmond to Stratford via NLL and Clapham Junction and 4tph
Clapham Junction to Stratford via WLL and NLL; 8tph between Kensal
Rise and Stratford
- removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL by upgrading alternate
routes
- OHLE on the GoBLin, allowing through electric freight services
from the LT&SR to the WCML
- 6tph Bakerloo service to Watford Junction

The resulting service pattern is hoped to be:

4tph Richmond to Stratford
4tph Clapham Junction to Stratford
2tph Queens Park to Stratford via Primrose Hill and Camden Road
2tph Clapham Junction to Barking
6tph Queens Park to Watford Junction

yielding 10tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford, with 2tph
turning left at Gospel Oak and 2tph merging from the right at
Camden Road. Throw in a reopened Primrose Hill NLR, a reopened
Tufnell Park NLR, a reopened York Way NLR, a _sensible_ re-zoning
in the Hampstead area and TfL London Rail would be sitting on a
high-capacity diversionary route that provides onward links between
the GWML, WCML and SW Reading lines and the MML, ECML, GEML and
Stratford City, without going through Zone 1.

My question though is how they're going to fit 10tph, some of it
longish electric through freight, on the Gospel Oak - Willesden
corridor? That section was never blessed with four-tracking...

(Info taken from "All change at Silverlink Metro", Modern Railways,
December 2005).

5000 extra lorries on the A14 past Cambridge. :-(((

5000 per what period of time?

I forget.

And why does that follow from the previous post?

Blocking the W10 gauge container train route from Felixstowe to the
West Midlands will case massive diversion to road onto the trunk road
which already has one of the highest proportions of lorries on one of
the busiest roads in the country.

It says "removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL *by upgrading alternate
routes*".
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Blocking the W10 gauge container train route from Felixstowe to the
West Midlands will case massive diversion to road onto the trunk
road which already has one of the highest proportions of lorries on
one
of the busiest roads in the country.

It says "removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL *by upgrading alternate
routes*".

But are there alternative routes to the WCML that entirely avoid the NLL?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Blocking the W10 gauge container train route from Felixstowe to the
West Midlands will case massive diversion to road onto the trunk
road which already has one of the highest proportions of lorries on
one of the busiest roads in the country.

It says "removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL *by upgrading alternate
routes*".

But are there alternative routes to the WCML that entirely avoid the
NLL?

Hmm, I see what you mean. How about Felixtowe-Bury St
Edmunds-Ely-Peterborough-Leicester-Nuneaton?

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

asdf wrote:
Are these planned, or just wishful thinking? (Even if the latter,
Primrose Hill at least seems extremely likely.)

York Way might happen if York Road LER was reopened. Islington Council
wants Tufnell Park reopened, and seeing as how Primrose Hill is mostly
intact, that one would seem to be simple...

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

Blocking the W10 gauge container train route from Felixstowe to the
West Midlands will case massive diversion to road onto the trunk
road which already has one of the highest proportions of lorries on
one
of the busiest roads in the country.

It says "removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL *by upgrading alternate
routes*".

But are there alternative routes to the WCML that entirely avoid the NLL?

What happened to that idea floating around a while back about building
a "freight focused route" across London, via the GOBLIN? Has it
completely disappeared?

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

Blocking the W10 gauge container train route from Felixstowe to
the West Midlands will case massive diversion to road onto the
trunk road which already has one of the highest proportions of
lorries on one of the busiest roads in the country.

It says "removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL *by upgrading
alternate routes*".

But are there alternative routes to the WCML that entirely avoid the
NLL?

What happened to that idea floating around a while back about building
a "freight focused route" across London, via the GOBLIN? Has it
completely disappeared?

Doesn't that still need the NLL to link to the WCML?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Blocking the W10 gauge container train route from Felixstowe to
the West Midlands will case massive diversion to road onto the trunk
road which already has one of the highest proportions of lorries
on one of the busiest roads in the country.

It says "removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL *by upgrading
alternate routes*".

But are there alternative routes to the WCML that entirely avoid the
NLL?

Hmm, I see what you mean. How about Felixtowe-Bury St
Edmunds-Ely-Peterborough-Leicester-Nuneaton?

Ho, ho! No electrification for starters nor any prospect of it. No W10
gauge, not even to Peterborough, and a highly congested route,
particularly the single track section between Soham and Ely where
existing freight traffic is already limiting passenger aspirations. This
section has always been single track so doubling would be a challenge to
say the least.

Enlarging Manton Tunnel (between Peterborough and Leicester) to W10
gauge could also be "interesting". Then there are all the conflicting
moves crossing the MML both North and South of Leicester. Then you can
have fun and games crossing the WCML on the flat at Nuneaton, once
connections there have been restored at all.

All in all, one sees why freight interests are so concerned about
Crossrail and the Mayor's plans.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 22:28 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

Blocking the W10 gauge container train route from Felixstowe to
the West Midlands will case massive diversion to road onto the
trunk road which already has one of the highest proportions of
lorries on one of the busiest roads in the country.

It says "removal of 9'6" freight from the NLL *by upgrading
alternate routes*".

But are there alternative routes to the WCML that entirely avoid the
NLL?

What happened to that idea floating around a while back about building
a "freight focused route" across London, via the GOBLIN? Has it
completely disappeared?

Doesn't that still need the NLL to link to the WCML?

IIRC it would have featured a tunnel from the western end of the
GOBLIN to somewhere like Primrose Hill, thus avoiding the NLL.