In article ,
(Pre-38) wrote:

Shaun Brady once punched Bob Crow, for which action he is going to go
to
heaven.
David Boothroyd

Union good guy: Anyone who realises they're in a public service
industry
and should be serving the public, not disrupting them.
James Farrar

Now if only the RMT members would see sense!
Roger ]


I detect yet more TDriver bashing going on . I recall similar threads
before
on here. What IS the matter with you people. Against some organisation
standing up for their members well being are we? Of course its very
unfortunate that YOU happen to be the travelling public and therefore
suffer
on strike days and of course when YOU look at your own personal salary
start
moaning that the the Drivers get too much pay and all that usual
bleating
like the chimes of Big Ben. OK so we ditch Union representation
altogether
shall we and rely totally on the kindness of human resources Company
management to look after our well being while we work for them and they
award, themselves and only themselres, bigger pay rises into the
bargain,
which you know they will do. Shall we then see how the pay and
conditions
deteriorate shall we. Is that acceptable to you lot then. Will you be
happy
then? Well I tell you it is simply not going to happen without a fight.

DaveR



I am a driver - I meant that if only the RMT members saw sense and booted
Bob Crow out for someone more reasonable. Then, who knows, perhaps the two
unions will start working with each other rather than fighting each other.
It can only be in the members interests.

Roger

wrote in message
...

Now if only the RMT members would see sense!
Roger ]


I detect yet more TDriver bashing going on . I recall similar threads
before
DaveR



I am a driver - I meant that if only the RMT members saw sense and booted
Bob Crow out for someone more reasonable. Then, who knows, perhaps the two
unions will start working with each other rather than fighting each other.
It can only be in the members interests.

Roger

Oh really I am surprised but then I must admit there are a hell uv a lot of
drivers who are not even Union members. I mean I dunno if you are or not but
I'm in ASLEF considered to be the weaker in terms of militancy but was once
stronger in the days of Ray Buckton (although he fell into line at the TUC
once) than the RMT or NUR as it once was before they merged.

Most of the non union members who drive trains are a pretty disparaging lot.
They come in on strike days (usually or if not go sick about a week earlier)
and merrily accept what we end up fighting for. I dunno their logic. OK so
not much is good about Unions, well I know that, but it doesn't mean you
disown them then go and accept all the conditions that have been struggled
for by your co workers. The Unions do a lot of good overall, despite the
fact they (the committees and activists) seem to be in it for their own
advancement.

I'm not too keen on having a lightweight leader in place of Mick Rix
however and although I'm not in it (the RMT) I think Bob Crow is a colossus
and certainly a guy who will speak up the working cause. I think there
should be more like him actually. There's nothing wrong with that its just
that some miserable cronies can't hack (take) him.

Of course the two Unions should work more closely together, everyone seems
to agree with that, something that was once on the cards but alas seems not
to have materialised.
DaveR

Pre-38 wrote:

Most of the non union members who drive trains are a pretty disparaging lot.
They come in on strike days (usually or if not go sick about a week earlier)
and merrily accept what we end up fighting for.

What are they supposed to do, turn down a pay rise?

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
Pre-38 wrote:
What are they supposed to do, turn down a pay rise?

Yes, is the plain answer to that or join the Union. Do One or other. They
wouldn't be getting the pay rise if it wasn't for the collective action on
the part of their colleaugues. The very least is that they could give their
days pay for coming in on a day of industrial action to some needy charity
and show us all the receipt later! But don't moan that the Unions never did
any good for them, which is what they normally do all the while.
DR

Pre-38 wrote:
"James Farrar" wrote in message
...

Pre-38 wrote:
What are they supposed to do, turn down a pay rise?


Yes, is the plain answer to that or join the Union. Do One or other.

Why? I wouldn't turn down a pay rise for any reason.

They wouldn't be getting the pay rise if it wasn't for the collective
action on the part of their colleaugues.

Thank you for your generosity. More money always comes in handy.

In article .


It's a long comment, but I'm having my gripe!

As I have mentioned in this newsgroup before, I am not in a union. I was
in a union (NUR then ASLEF) for about 19 years. I was an ASLEF branch
secretary at the time of the successful company plan strikes in 1989(?)
and gave the union my full support (this was the only time that I remember
both unions actually working together instead of against each other). I
was then working on the Northern Line Train Staff Operating Manual (the
black filofax)which occupied me full time, including time at home and as a
consequence resigned as branch secretary as I couldn't give it my full
attention. As time went on, I became disillusioned with my branch and
their attitude of a couple of the active members.

I then left ASLEF and joined NUR. That was a mistake. NUR weren't the
least bit interested in their members, they were more interested in
selling the members details off to outside firms. I regularly got
bombarded at home with junk mail trying to persuade me to get a Unity (the
union) credit card or take out a Unity loan, or insurance, but absolutely
nothing from the union about union matters. I wrote to the union telling
them to stop sending me this crap as it wasn't what I joined the union for
and I objected to the principle of it. They didn't, so I resigned from
them a well. As a consequence, I have not been in a union for about 11
years.

If I feel strongly about a strike issue, then I will come out on strike as
well in support. However I will normally come in to work on strike days,
as do a growing number of people. The actions of some of the so-called
union reps and heavies that seem to appear from nowhere on picket duty
only reinforces my resolve. They know that they aren't going to make me
turn back, so don't normally bother with me, but their treatment of other
staff on the day leaves a lot to be desired. A line of drunken pickets, as
has happened at least once, doesn't do anything for the cause in the eyes
of the passengers that they are preventing from travelling.

The strikes these days are all about union power - showing who's the boss,
nothing to do with their members interests. How many of the recent tube
strikes have got anywhere?
There was a strike over safety issues, There were no changes to any of the
safety procedures and the safety issues that the unions called a strike
for still remained. When the union found they weren't getting the support,
they made up some excuse for calling off the strike yet, if they thought
the issues so serious from a safety point of view, why didn't they carry
on with the strike?

The last strike was about pay, with the unions making ridiculous demands
they knew they wouldn't get. Once again it gets to a stalemate and the
unions are looking for a way out. Ken steps in with the offer of a review
when he takes over and instantly the strike's over and he is seen as the
great saviour by the travelling public and it's the way out that the
unions are looking for. Still no pay rise and if we do get it, it's likely
to be incorporated in whatever the new pay deal is going to be anyway so
it's irrelevant.

These are just two examples where members have dutifully followed the
unions instructions and have not come in to work, losing a day's pay each
time and for what? nothing!. Who's the mug? It's certainly not me or the
others who came in to work. The rest of the people have nothing to show
for the strikes, other than a loss on their pay slip. Certainly nothing
has changed as a result of them losing their money. All that has happened
is that the union bosses have been able to show to the government and each
other that they have power.

Most union members are like sheep. They don't bother to think for
themselves and just follow everybody else. They're quick to moan about a
strike and losing a day or more pay, but they still vote for the strike or
worse, don't bother to vote at all. The attitude is often "Oh well, it's a
day off!" Those that have other jobs (especially the mini cab drivers)
don't give a toss anyway as it gives them another day to carry on with
their other work. I used to be surprised when I heard that people had
another job. I'm not any longer. So many seem to do other things that I'm
beginning to wonder if those that only do their LU job are in the
minority. With some, their driver's job is secondary to what else they do
outside of work.

I am all for unions, they are needed to ensure the workers conditions are
as they should be. But neither the union or the company should be the
dominant one and neither should have the power to hold the other to
ransom. Ideally a happy balance should exist, although it rarely seems to
happen.

I would like to be in a union. If asked by trainees about whether they
should join a union or not I advise them to - there are a lot of
advantages, especially for a new employee who might well need the union's
support. However, until both unions sort their act out and stop fighting
against each other and put their members first rather than the union, I
will remain a non-member and do as my conscience tells me.


Roger