[posted to uk.transport.london and uk.railway]

Stephen Parascandolo has removed the news section, including the
archive of old news, from his excellent unofficial Croydon Tramlink
website because he was - to quite him directly - "threatened with legal
action twice in a week on completely unrelated reports, one of them
published over 3 years ago".

You can read his full thoughts on the matter by going to this page:
http://tramlink.co.uk/news/index.shtml

For obvious reasons Stephen's words shed no direct light on what the
offending reports were nor who made the legal threats.

It is however distinctly sad news, as Stephen's site had become the de
facto chronicler of all the 'happenings' on and related to the Croydon
Tramlink system. I'm sure we can all sympathise with Stephen and his
decision given that the site is a hobby he operates in his spare time.
It is quite contemptible that some heavy handed flexing of the legal
muscles of large companies means popular websites such as Stephen's
have to suffer.

Mizter T wrote:
[posted to uk.transport.london and uk.railway]

Stephen Parascandolo has removed the news section, including the
archive of old news, from his excellent unofficial Croydon Tramlink
website because he was - to quite him directly - "threatened with legal
action twice in a week on completely unrelated reports, one of them
published over 3 years ago".

You can read his full thoughts on the matter by going to this page:
http://tramlink.co.uk/news/index.shtml

For obvious reasons Stephen's words shed no direct light on what the
offending reports were nor who made the legal threats.

It is however distinctly sad news, as Stephen's site had become the de
facto chronicler of all the 'happenings' on and related to the Croydon
Tramlink system. I'm sure we can all sympathise with Stephen and his
decision given that the site is a hobby he operates in his spare time.
It is quite contemptible that some heavy handed flexing of the legal
muscles of large companies means popular websites such as Stephen's
have to suffer.


Having posted this story I have (only now) noticed it's been mentioned
here already, under the 'Tramlink Censorship' thread. On Stephen's site
he has "R.I.P - Latest News Service
6th April 1999 - 12th December 2005", which lead me to believe this was
something that'd happened this morning. On second inspection I see he's
dated his statement ' 6th December 2005'.

I think I was so incensed having found out what happened I didn't check
what I was doing first, I just posted. Apologies for the duplication.

On 12 Dec 2005 01:20:04 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
[posted to uk.transport.london and uk.railway]

Stephen Parascandolo has removed the news section, including the
archive of old news, from his excellent unofficial Croydon Tramlink
website because he was - to quite him directly - "threatened with legal
action twice in a week on completely unrelated reports, one of them
published over 3 years ago".

You can read his full thoughts on the matter by going to this page:
http://tramlink.co.uk/news/index.shtml

For obvious reasons Stephen's words shed no direct light on what the
offending reports were nor who made the legal threats.

It is however distinctly sad news, as Stephen's site had become the de
facto chronicler of all the 'happenings' on and related to the Croydon
Tramlink system. I'm sure we can all sympathise with Stephen and his
decision given that the site is a hobby he operates in his spare time.
It is quite contemptible that some heavy handed flexing of the legal
muscles of large companies means popular websites such as Stephen's
have to suffer.


Having posted this story I have (only now) noticed it's been mentioned
here already, under the 'Tramlink Censorship' thread. On Stephen's site
he has "R.I.P - Latest News Service
6th April 1999 - 12th December 2005", which lead me to believe this was
something that'd happened this morning. On second inspection I see he's
dated his statement ' 6th December 2005'.

I think I was so incensed having found out what happened I didn't check
what I was doing first, I just posted. Apologies for the duplication.

There is a lot more information that has been provided to members of the
related Yahoo forum, even so, it is very doubtful that the News Section will
every appear again in the format that was so appreciated by very many tram
enthusiasts. Isn't it a sad reflection of life today in what is supposedly an
enviroment that we can ask questions on almost anything and have a right to a
response?

David Bradey

"David Bradley" wrote in message

There is a lot more information that has been provided to members of the
related Yahoo forum, even so, it is very doubtful that the News Section
will
every appear again in the format that was so appreciated by very many tram
enthusiasts. Isn't it a sad reflection of life today in what is
supposedly an
enviroment that we can ask questions on almost anything and have a right
to a
response?

There was a half page on this in last week's Croydon Advertiser.

See http://tinyurl.com/ajoqu

Vernon wrote in
:

"David Bradley" wrote in message

There is a lot more information that has been provided to members of
the related Yahoo forum, even so, it is very doubtful that the News
Section will every appear again in the format that was so
appreciated by very many tram enthusiasts. Isn't it a sad
reflection of life today in what is supposedly an enviroment that we
can ask questions on almost anything and have a right to a response?

There was a half page on this in last week's Croydon Advertiser.

See http://tinyurl.com/ajoqu

I love the headline: "Silence of the Trams". Nice one!

It's interesting that Bombadier seem to have backed down a bit and are
saying that the news pages can now go ahead proving the info is checked (ie
censored) by them. I wonder why (according to Stephen's info) they
originally weren't prepared even to indicate which info was wrong or to
discuss it with him - they just branded everything "libellous rubbish".

I bet Bombadier's and Tramlink's PR departments have been working overtime
over the past few days trying to work out how to play down the negative
publicity of the newspaper stories which could easily be far more damaging
for them than the apparent libels on the site.

David Bradley wrote:

There is a lot more information that has been provided to members of the
related Yahoo forum, even so, it is very doubtful that the News Section will
every appear again in the format that was so appreciated by very many tram
enthusiasts. Isn't it a sad reflection of life today in what is supposedly an
enviroment that we can ask questions on almost anything and have a right to a
response?

David Bradey

I am not au fait with the Yahoo group in question, could you enlighten
me as to what it's called?

I agree completely with your sentiments. I guess it shows the power of
the web - the fact that Bombardier were concerned about the bad
impression an enthusiasts website might create for those whom may be
considering buying trams at least suggests that transport
authorities/tramway operating consortia do their research about tram
makes and models from a wide variety of sources before placing a
multimillion order. Anyway, my impression was that Stephen's site
was/is broadly positive about the Cologne model trams that were chosen
for Tramlink.

One last (and rather obvious) thought - if potential customers (in the
form of city transport authorities or tramway operators) look at
enthusiasts websites, then surely many of them will also be able to
read the criticism of Bombardier both here on usenet and in other
internet forums, criticism which has been created by their heavy handed
approach to Stephen and his website.

On 12 Dec 2005 08:44:45 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

David Bradley wrote:

There is a lot more information that has been provided to members of the
related Yahoo forum, even so, it is very doubtful that the News Section will
every appear again in the format that was so appreciated by very many tram
enthusiasts. Isn't it a sad reflection of life today in what is supposedly an
enviroment that we can ask questions on almost anything and have a right to a
response?

David Bradey

I am not au fait with the Yahoo group in question, could you enlighten
me as to what it's called?

Try this: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/croydontramlink/ or use my links page
at http://www.trolleybus.net/tramlinks.htm for Croydon Tramlink to sign up to
receive messages in your email client.


I agree completely with your sentiments. I guess it shows the power of
the web - the fact that Bombardier were concerned about the bad
impression an enthusiasts website might create for those whom may be
considering buying trams at least suggests that transport
authorities/tramway operating consortia do their research about tram
makes and models from a wide variety of sources before placing a
multimillion order. Anyway, my impression was that Stephen's site
was/is broadly positive about the Cologne model trams that were chosen
for Tramlink.

He sure was, and that is the thanks he got for his troubles.

One last (and rather obvious) thought - if potential customers (in the
form of city transport authorities or tramway operators) look at
enthusiasts websites, then surely many of them will also be able to
read the criticism of Bombardier both here on usenet and in other
internet forums, criticism which has been created by their heavy handed
approach to Stephen and his website.

Now that's an interesting thought that your humble enthusiast can make a
difference to shape the transport infrastructure of the future, I think I need
to plug my website www.tfwl.org.uk and the sit back for the desired
improvements that are sought!

David Bradley

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:24:00 -0000, "Martin Underwood"
wrote:

It's interesting that Bombadier seem to have backed down a bit and are
saying that the news pages can now go ahead proving the info is checked (ie
censored) by them. I wonder why (according to Stephen's info) they
originally weren't prepared even to indicate which info was wrong or to
discuss it with him - they just branded everything "libellous rubbish".

Perhaps they were simply trying to scare him? Asking objectors to put
their specific complaints in writing (then putting details of the
complaint on the website if possible) can be a good way getting
complainers to change their minds. If they have to sit down and think
what is "libellous rubbish", they might change their minds about what
it is.

I bet Bombadier's and Tramlink's PR departments have been working overtime
over the past few days trying to work out how to play down the negative
publicity of the newspaper stories which could easily be far more damaging
for them than the apparent libels on the site.

Given some other things (see what the Free Tibet people have to say
about Bombardier), I doubt they really care. How many Croydon
newspaper readers would be likely to go out and buy a tram or aircraft
anyway?!

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Arthur Figgis wrote in
:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:24:00 -0000, "Martin Underwood"
wrote:

I bet Bombadier's and Tramlink's PR departments have been working
overtime over the past few days trying to work out how to play down
the negative publicity of the newspaper stories which could easily
be far more damaging for them than the apparent libels on the site.

Given some other things (see what the Free Tibet people have to say
about Bombardier), I doubt they really care. How many Croydon
newspaper readers would be likely to go out and buy a tram or aircraft
anyway?!

It only takes a few copies of the relevant newspaper clippings or URLs to
websites to be sent to the right people in the companies which are potential
customers and they'd start to ask Bombadier what it's all about and what
they've got to hide if they are trying to censor an enthusiast's site.
Perish the thought that anyone might feel strongly enough to go out and do
that... ;-)

In article , David Bradley
writes
Now that's an interesting thought that your humble enthusiast can make a
difference to shape the transport infrastructure of the future,

Some years ago I got an email from a transit authority in (IIRC) Canada,
asking my opinion on metro rolling stock.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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