"If we believe that you have used or tried to use any ticket or Oyster
card to defraud us we may cancel and not re-issue it. If this happens,
we will not give you a refund of the remaining value of the ticket or
Pre Pay, or refund any deposit paid for the Oyster card."

...which appears (again, IANAL) to give them free rein to withdraw
your Oyster complete with all stored value, if they happen not to like
what you're doing with it.

Not quite. They would still have to prove intent to defraud. And that requires a published
definition of fraudulent use (at the very least by comparing with a leaflet that describes
non-fraudulent use), which seems to be absent.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Oyster pay as you go
has a 2 hour time limit for each journey in order to prevent misuse.

In message , at 09:03:41 on
Wed, 4 Jan 2006, TKD remarked:
"If we believe that you have used or tried to use any ticket or Oyster
card to defraud us we may cancel and not re-issue it. If this happens,
we will not give you a refund of the remaining value of the ticket or
Pre Pay, or refund any deposit paid for the Oyster card."

...which appears (again, IANAL) to give them free rein to withdraw
your Oyster complete with all stored value, if they happen not to like
what you're doing with it.

Not quite. They would still have to prove intent to defraud. And that requires a published
definition of fraudulent use (at the very least by comparing with a leaflet that describes
non-fraudulent use), which seems to be absent.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Oyster pay as you go
has a 2 hour time limit for each journey in order to prevent misuse.

That would be a sensible rule in most circumstances (you'd need to waive
it in the aftermath of serious disruption), but needs a mention in a
leaflet somewhere, along the lines of "Every journey must be completed
within 2 hours".
--
Roland Perry

Not quite. They would still have to prove intent to defraud. And that requires a published
definition of fraudulent use (at the very least by comparing with a leaflet that describes
non-fraudulent use), which seems to be absent.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Oyster pay as you go
has a 2 hour time limit for each journey in order to prevent misuse.

That would be a sensible rule in most circumstances (you'd need to waive it in the aftermath of
serious disruption), but needs a mention in a leaflet somewhere, along the lines of "Every journey
must be completed within 2 hours".

No chance of that. The current 20-page "Your guide to Oyster" contains
55 images and little more than captions for a 'guide'. A clear attempt has
been made to hide any complexity resulting in a guide that is useless. Why
are they so scared to produce a document that explains the system in a
clear and thorough way. I wonder if those responsible for the documentation
fully understand how it works?

I still come across people who do not buy their weekly travelcard on
Oyster because "Oyster does not work on the trains". (!)

In message , at 09:56:27 on Wed, 4
Jan 2006, TKD remarked:
Not quite. They would still have to prove intent to defraud. And that requires a published
definition of fraudulent use (at the very least by comparing with a leaflet that describes
non-fraudulent use), which seems to be absent.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Oyster pay as you go
has a 2 hour time limit for each journey in order to prevent misuse.

That would be a sensible rule in most circumstances (you'd need to waive it in the aftermath of
serious disruption), but needs a mention in a leaflet somewhere, along the lines of "Every journey
must be completed within 2 hours".

No chance of that. The current 20-page "Your guide to Oyster" contains
55 images and little more than captions for a 'guide'. A clear attempt has
been made to hide any complexity resulting in a guide that is useless. Why
are they so scared to produce a document that explains the system in a
clear and thorough way. I wonder if those responsible for the documentation
fully understand how it works?

It's fairly simple: If they have a rule but don't publish it, there is
no enforceable rule.

(In this instance, we don't even know if there's even such a rule
lurking anywhere).

--
Roland Perry

Not quite. They would still have to prove intent to defraud. And that requires a published
definition of fraudulent use (at the very least by comparing with a leaflet that describes
non-fraudulent use), which seems to be absent.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Oyster pay as you go
has a 2 hour time limit for each journey in order to prevent misuse.

That would be a sensible rule in most circumstances (you'd need to waive it in the aftermath of
serious disruption), but needs a mention in a leaflet somewhere, along the lines of "Every
journey
must be completed within 2 hours".

No chance of that. The current 20-page "Your guide to Oyster" contains
55 images and little more than captions for a 'guide'. A clear attempt has
been made to hide any complexity resulting in a guide that is useless. Why
are they so scared to produce a document that explains the system in a
clear and thorough way. I wonder if those responsible for the documentation
fully understand how it works?

It's fairly simple: If they have a rule but don't publish it, there is no enforceable rule.

(In this instance, we don't even know if there's even such a rule lurking anywhere).

I've just searched the Conditions of Carriage and the only reference to two hours
was for tube carnet so I've probably mis-remembered that.

However, there must be a time limit for Oyster journeys as this would be the point
at which the journey is declared "unresolved" if you do not touch-out.

Also unpublished is the time you have to make an out-of-station interchange.

TKD wrote:

However, there must be a time limit for Oyster journeys as this would be the point
at which the journey is declared "unresolved" if you do not touch-out.

Not necessarily. As you can't make two journeys at once, touching in
again (before any touch out) would surely be the point at which that
was flagged?

That said, you could then get away with a very long journey if you
touched in, passed out through open barriers, then passed through open
barriers to start another journey and touched out at the end of it.
That doesn't go to say that there *has* to be a limit, though, it just
means there would be a slight (and probably rare) anomaly if there
wasn't.

Also unpublished is the time you have to make an out-of-station interchange.

That could (but again possibly introducing an anomaly as above) simply
be triggered by a touch-out followed immediately (with no other travel
in between) by a touch-in at a valid station.

Neil

TKD wrote:
No chance of that. The current 20-page "Your guide to Oyster" contains
55 images and little more than captions for a 'guide'. A clear attempt has
been made to hide any complexity resulting in a guide that is useless. Why
are they so scared to produce a document that explains the system in a
clear and thorough way. I wonder if those responsible for the documentation
fully understand how it works?

I still come across people who do not buy their weekly travelcard on
Oyster because "Oyster does not work on the trains". (!)

Well, they are probably better sticking with paper travelcards anyway.
No passengers charter discount, and it seems no 'gold card' bonuses.

--
Paul

No chance of that. The current 20-page "Your guide to Oyster" contains
55 images and little more than captions for a 'guide'. A clear attempt has
been made to hide any complexity resulting in a guide that is useless. Why
are they so scared to produce a document that explains the system in a
clear and thorough way. I wonder if those responsible for the documentation
fully understand how it works?

I still come across people who do not buy their weekly travelcard on
Oyster because "Oyster does not work on the trains". (!)

Well, they are probably better sticking with paper travelcards anyway. No passengers charter
discount, and it seems no 'gold card' bonuses.

It is very unlikely they will be better off if they ever travel on the tube beyond the
zones on their travelcard . A two zone extension is £1 for Oyster users or £3 for
paper ticket holders.

In message , Paul
writes
TKD wrote:
No chance of that. The current 20-page "Your guide to Oyster" contains
55 images and little more than captions for a 'guide'. A clear attempt has
been made to hide any complexity resulting in a guide that is useless. Why
are they so scared to produce a document that explains the system in a
clear and thorough way. I wonder if those responsible for the documentation
fully understand how it works?
I still come across people who do not buy their weekly travelcard on
Oyster because "Oyster does not work on the trains". (!)

Well, they are probably better sticking with paper travelcards anyway.
No passengers charter discount, and it seems no 'gold card' bonuses.

(!?) Weekly travelcards aren't eligible for gold card bonuses anyway.
Yearly Oyster season tickets do get you gold card bonuses.

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

I suspect that a tube journey from Cockfosters to Heathrow Airport on
the Piccadilly Line would be very close to 2 hours long in normal
circumstances.
--

gbh
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