On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:01:06 -0000, "RedAspect"
wrote:

Both the uninformed and the anti RMT mob in this NG

If there is an anti-RMT "mob", I would suggest you reflect upon the
expression "you reap what you sow".

are just refusing to see that the strike is about job losses and safety.

Since it isn't

It's a good excuse for a strike; or at least, it would be if it hadn't
been worn out. I suggest you reflect upon the moral of the tale of the
boy who cried "Wolf!".

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Isn't Bob Crowe, as one of Livingstone's cronies, a member of the
T.F.L. Board? If that is so, how can he possibly negotiate on the
union's behalf in any event? Conflict of interest and duty? Oh, sorry,
for him to understand that concept presupposes he has a brain to start
with. In fact, is there any evidence to suggest Crowe has a brain at
all? And they say prehistoric dinosaurs died out with the Ice Age!

Marc.

From the BBC's site 'Key players in the union movement' re Bob Crow:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4197262.stm

A former communist, he professes admiration for Arthur Scargill and for
Chairman Mao, and he began his own climb up the ranks of the RMT in 1983,
succeeding the late Jimmy Knapp as boss in 2002.
He has said:

"I'm not one of those union officials who continually say they regret the
inconvenience caused by industrial action.

You cannot have a dispute without inconvenience to the travelling public."

Sums him up quite well really..

Paul

What a dick.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I don't condone the strike for one moment.

But, unless and until ticket machines can, for example, at Fulham
Broadway, sell me a return from Zone 2 boundary to Harwich, then the
machines are not covering all of the complicated eventualities that, at
present, require a ticket office. I frequently buy a Zone 1 & 2
Travelcard at my newsagent, but often need an extension as
aforementioned which, at present, machines cannot cope with, especially
if it invoves National Rail.

Why can't the ticket office staff being redeployed (presumably outside
peak hours) be equipped with portable machines like National Rail
travelling ticket inspectors who seem to be able to sell any
combination of tickets on their portable machines for any date up to
364 days in advance, and accept credit cards as well?

Presumably they would howl with resentment at, a) being removed from
their cosy ticket office and b) having the additional duties of
carrying equipment and dealing with the public but, frankly, so what?
We all have aspects of our jobs we don't like, and some of us don't
even get guaranteed pensions and paid leave etc.

That's an excellent idea. The only time I have to use a ticket office is
when I need to buy a Silverstink ticket from Highbury & Islington - and I'm
usually stuck in the queue behind 10 people all wanting something they can
get from the ticket machines. Absolutely ridiculous. Something clearly has
to be done with the organisation of the ticket offices on the underground -
there seems to be something seriously awry with the amount of staff and the
amount of service. Ridiculous.

Marc.

"RedAspect" wrote in message
...

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 02:58:29 -0000, "RedAspect"
wrote:

The strike is about jobs and safety. The level of staff at central
London stations was set in law as a result of the Kings Cross fire.
LU wants to scrap that legislation known as section 12.

Sorry but I understood that the legislative change was a government
change and not something sponsored by LU. I have seen nothing that
would suggest that LU is promoting this change.

The 35-hour week that was first promised in 1997 was negotiated
with LU last year and it was agreed that 200 ticket seller posts
would go but no job losses.

Where is the evidence - not rhetoric - that there will be job losses?

To try and do this without employing more staff, LU put forward
the 35/37.5 hour week. The excess 2.5 hours per week being
taken as extra leave. The figures don't add up of course, you
cannot run the tube with the same amount of staff when they off
with a total of 52 days leave (including normal annual leave and
bank holidays).

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

I was one who voted against the deal because a few others and I
could see the flaws. Customer driven rostering as LU calls it, is a
back door way of reducing staff.

Perhaps you need to take over from the Bob and Bobby show then?

The new rosters prove us right, and LU is seeking to cut nearly
500 jobs despite Mike Brown's denials. If the KC fire proved that
the present level of staff was required how can this be right we
now have the terrorist threat as well?

Actually because of the smoking ban, improvements in station design
and station operation (read staff and staff procedures) a fire like KC
is unlikely. But who knows when terrorists will visit again.

Without diminishing for one moment what staff did after the incidents I
do not see the moral basis for using the threat of terrorist attack as a
way of justifying the retention of staff in ticket offices or for strike
action. No member of staff was able, in any practical sense, to prevent
the suicide attacks. It would be utterly wrong to make the accusation
that they could have done - that would simply heap guilt on peoples'
shoulders. It is wrong for the RMT to suggest that retention of current
staffing arrangements would in any way prevent an attack.

They could happen tomorrow in exactly the same circumstances as it is
utterly impractical and, dare I say dangerous, for LU staff to
physically inspect every piece of luggage before it enters the LU
network.

We must win this dispute. Unfortunately the only way workers can
win these things is by withdrawing their labour. Inconvenience to
customers is regrettable but necessary."

Regrettable but necessary. Don't make me laugh. The RMT are only looking
after the (apparent) interests of their members. This is nothing to do
with passengers and everything to do with being out negotiated and
trying to correct a mess they created when they accepted the original
deal.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!


Both the uninformed and the anti RMT mob in this NG are just refusing to
see that the strike is about job losses and safety. To include the
awarding of "Me Before Everybody" (MBE) to a manager that didn't earn it
is just the kind of non sequitur thrown in by losers who haven't really
got anything to say.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I've not heard a single
argument from ANYONE as to how the strikes have anything to do with safety.
The safety argument begins and ends at the word "safety" - perhaps you could
tell us how having less staff in ticket offices makes us more unsafe?
Pretty please?

d wrote in uk.transport.london on Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:07:34 GMT
k:

wrote in message
oups.com...

Why can't the ticket office staff being redeployed (presumably outside
peak hours) be equipped with portable machines like National Rail
travelling ticket inspectors who seem to be able to sell any
combination of tickets on their portable machines for any date up to
364 days in advance, and accept credit cards as well?

That's an excellent idea.

Well, apart from severely increasing the risk of robbery from what
would, in effect, be mobile unprotected cash machines, these staff
wouldn't have an interface with Oyster. There does appear to have been
a significant increase in the number of face-to-cafe enquiries at
ticket offices about Oyster card problems.

The only time I have to use a ticket office is
when I need to buy a Silverstink ticket from Highbury & Islington - and I'm
usually stuck in the queue behind 10 people all wanting something they can
get from the ticket machines. Absolutely ridiculous. Something clearly has
to be done with the organisation of the ticket offices on the underground -
there seems to be something seriously awry with the amount of staff and the
amount of service. Ridiculous.

You're losing me here; people want to use ticket offices rather than
machines, but we should have less ticket offices?

--
hike
- a walking tour or outing, esp. of the self-conscious kind
Chambers 20th Century Dictionary

d wrote in uk.transport.london on Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:12:10 GMT
. uk:

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I've not heard a single
argument from ANYONE as to how the strikes have anything to do with safety.
The safety argument begins and ends at the word "safety" - perhaps you could
tell us how having less staff in ticket offices makes us more unsafe?

I'd understood that the references to safety were regarding the use of
either untrained staff (or, alternatively, no staff at all) as part of
LUL management's efforts to keep stations open during the strikes.
BICBW.

--
hike
- a walking tour or outing, esp. of the self-conscious kind
Chambers 20th Century Dictionary

Dave Hillam ]) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Why can't the ticket office staff being redeployed (presumably
outside peak hours) be equipped with portable machines like National
Rail travelling ticket inspectors who seem to be able to sell any
combination of tickets on their portable machines for any date up to
364 days in advance, and accept credit cards as well?

That's an excellent idea.

Well, apart from severely increasing the risk of robbery from what
would, in effect, be mobile unprotected cash machines,

It's hardly an idea without precedent - and I'd have thought that somebody
standing on a bus or in a ticket hall selling tickets was less likely to be
robbed than a machine standing alone at a bus stop... Besides, if National
Rail can do it, why can't TfL?

these staff wouldn't have an interface with Oyster.

Why not? Ticket inspectors already have hand-held Oyster wands.

In article . 170,
Adrian wrote:
these staff wouldn't have an interface with Oyster.

Why not? Ticket inspectors already have hand-held Oyster wands.

That may not be sufficent for the more complex problems[1]. Y'know,
the ones the machines can't cope with, and that a person at a ticket
office needs to resolve.

--
RIP Morph (1977-2005)

In article ,
Dave Hillam wrote:

Well, apart from severely increasing the risk of robbery from what
would, in effect, be mobile unprotected cash machines, these staff
wouldn't have an interface with Oyster. There does appear to have been
a significant increase in the number of face-to-cafe enquiries at
ticket offices about Oyster card problems.

I don't know how much it costs, but you can (or used to be able to anyway)
set up private groups on mobile phone networks. Can that include GSM
data services ? With a few extra microcells in mobile dead spots (that
I'm sure everyone is going to tell me about :-)) that might be workable.
I'd expect Mobile Oyster to be a big enough market that TFL could at
least talk to the networks nicely ...

Nick
--
So when is Tony Blair going to start treating *us* with respect ?

Mike Bristow ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

these staff wouldn't have an interface with Oyster.

Why not? Ticket inspectors already have hand-held Oyster wands.

That may not be sufficent for the more complex problems[1]. Y'know,
the ones the machines can't cope with, and that a person at a ticket
office needs to resolve.

The ones a person needs to resolve? Yeh, I'd reckon that could be arranged.
All you'd need to do is have a person holding the wand, and have a wand
with sufficient software. Shouldn't be difficult. Build a cheap PDA into
it.