There USED to be massive queues at the start of the month, yeah. But
they brought in new, better, faster, multifunction, reliable,
multilingual ticket machines, and ****loads of them, and the queuing
problem really just disappeared.

Good point. Does anyone know if you can load an Oyster with a monthly
at a ticket machine (rather than via the Internet)? If not, it'd be
about time you could...

At that point (and now I'm going to be controversial) could ticket
offices effectively be replaced by roving assistance staff in smaller
numbers and Oyster-issuing machines? Make the tickets transferrable
(as they are in some European countries - why not?) and the issuing of
photocards becomes no issue either...

They may do now, but they didn't then, though there are not huge numbers
of ticket windows (no need for them). What LUL is doing now is more or
less what the RATP did about ten years ago...

The number of ticket offices at LUL stations does surprise me, compared
with most European systems. Then again, high ticket office staffing
seems a curiously British thing - Merseyrail is fully staffed
throughout service except for 4 stations that have never had staff
(which is a waste of money), and mainline stations still haven't
managed to go over to machines as the primary means of on-the-day
ticket issuing as they quite easily could (and have in some other
countries e.g. the Netherlands).

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
There USED to be massive queues at the start of the month, yeah. But
they brought in new, better, faster, multifunction, reliable,
multilingual ticket machines, and ****loads of them, and the queuing
problem really just disappeared.


Good point. Does anyone know if you can load an Oyster with a monthly
at a ticket machine (rather than via the Internet)? If not, it'd be
about time you could...

Yes at the big multifare machines and the QuickTicket machines, though
not at my local tube station, which has no LUL machines at all :-( I
find it preferable to online purchases, cos it's quicker and less hassle
(contrary to what you might imagine).

At that point (and now I'm going to be controversial) could ticket
offices effectively be replaced by roving assistance staff in smaller

Occasionally they do. South Kensington, I've seen staff "patrol" the
machine queue giving out change and speeding up button pressing, and
also patrolling the ticket office queue (e.g. giving change so people
can use the machines, thus leaving the queue smaller and only full of
people who really need to use the ticket office.

numbers and Oyster-issuing machines? Make the tickets transferrable
(as they are in some European countries - why not?) and the issuing of
photocards becomes no issue either...

Monthlies weren't transferable in Paris, not sure about weeklies, though
I don't think so.

They may do now, but they didn't then, though there are not huge numbers
of ticket windows (no need for them). What LUL is doing now is more or
less what the RATP did about ten years ago...


The number of ticket offices at LUL stations does surprise me, compared
with most European systems. Then again, high ticket office staffing
seems a curiously British thing - Merseyrail is fully staffed

Do they still do those scratchcard day tickets? Machines don't sell
those, and they were always one of the most popular purchases. (Mainly
because people would try and get away with not scratching the date off!)

throughout service except for 4 stations that have never had staff
(which is a waste of money), and mainline stations still haven't
managed to go over to machines as the primary means of on-the-day
ticket issuing as they quite easily could (and have in some other
countries e.g. the Netherlands).

Ticket offices are less necessary when you have machines that can vend
all but the most rare tickets, when they work, when they have change,
when they take cards and when people are used to using them.

Unfortunately, in Britain, we're not so good at that :-)

On 12 Jan 2006 02:02:10 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

with most European systems. Then again, high ticket office staffing
seems a curiously British thing - Merseyrail is fully staffed
throughout service except for 4 stations that have never had staff

Try Hungary, where I found a fully staffed MAV ticket office open from
05.xx to the evening, on a line which sees 2-3 trains a day - which
have a ticket seller onboard. About 5min walk away is a big mainline
inter-city station, which could justify staff, but a tiny narrow gauge
branch?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Dave Newt wrote:

Yes at the big multifare machines and the QuickTicket machines, though
not at my local tube station, which has no LUL machines at all :-( I
find it preferable to online purchases, cos it's quicker and less hassle
(contrary to what you might imagine).

Good. Perhaps a poster campaign is required; "Save queueing! Did you
know you can buy season tickets by credit card from the machine if you
have an Oyster card" and the likes.

Monthlies weren't transferable in Paris, not sure about weeklies, though
I don't think so.

There were two different prices for a transferrable and
non-transferrable ticket in Hamburg. The disadvantage of the latter
(other than a slightly increased price) was that it couldn't be
refunded if lost/stolen, and that you couldn't claim back a single
purchased if you forgot it. Neither of these need be a problem with
Oyster if touch in/out is a requirement - a lost/stolen card can be
blocked, and you could prove to within a reasonable level of doubt
(ignoring unbarriered stations) that it hadn't been used on a given
day.

The benefits would be saving of the cost of issuing photocards which
would no longer be required, with the exception of child photocards
which could be issued centrally (and aren't really checked anyway,
given that most checking is by barriers). It'd also be a nice
passenger benefit at relatively low cost.

[Merseytravel]
Do they still do those scratchcard day tickets? Machines don't sell
those, and they were always one of the most popular purchases. (Mainly
because people would try and get away with not scratching the date off!)

Yes, they still exist, but IMO it would be sensible to replace them
with tickets issued on the day on the bus and train as in Greater
Manchester.

Ticket offices are less necessary when you have machines that can vend
all but the most rare tickets, when they work, when they have change,
when they take cards and when people are used to using them.

The FastTicket machines (*not* the appalling Scheidt and Bachmann
QuickTicket machines) aren't far off. They just need Rovers adding...

Neil

Arthur Figgis wrote:

Try Hungary, where I found a fully staffed MAV ticket office open from
05.xx to the evening, on a line which sees 2-3 trains a day - which
have a ticket seller onboard. About 5min walk away is a big mainline
inter-city station, which could justify staff, but a tiny narrow gauge
branch?

OK, perhaps I should have said "western Europe". Further east, where
staff costs can be lower, the economics are probably different.

The staffing levels in, say, Thailand, as compared with even Malaysia
(on the same train!), are quite noticeable.

Neil

Quote Dave N....

The FastTicket machines (*not* the appalling Scheidt and Bachmann
QuickTicket machines) aren't far off.

Interesting observation Dave..Here in Dublin our new LRT system went for the
S&B machines in a big way.
After a somewhat prolonged bedding-in period the machines now appear to be
functioning ok......Touch Wood.

Neil Williams wrote:
Dave Newt wrote:


Yes at the big multifare machines and the QuickTicket machines, though
not at my local tube station, which has no LUL machines at all :-( I
find it preferable to online purchases, cos it's quicker and less hassle
(contrary to what you might imagine).


Good. Perhaps a poster campaign is required; "Save queueing! Did you
know you can buy season tickets by credit card from the machine if you
have an Oyster card" and the likes.

What makes you think this is "required"? Is there some evidence that
people don't know?

other stuff snipped but ta for the info

Alek wrote:
Quote Dave N....

Wasn't me.

The FastTicket machines (*not* the appalling Scheidt and Bachmann
QuickTicket machines) aren't far off.

Interesting observation Dave..

Neil...

Here in Dublin our new LRT system went for the
S&B machines in a big way.
After a somewhat prolonged bedding-in period the machines now appear to be
functioning ok......Touch Wood.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:00:24 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:

Good. Perhaps a poster campaign is required; "Save queueing! Did you
know you can buy season tickets by credit card from the machine if you
have an Oyster card" and the likes.

What makes you think this is "required"? Is there some evidence that
people don't know?

I was tempted to say "if it's a good enough deal, people will find
out". But there used to be a very good deal on booklets of 'bus
tickets. People who made occasional journeys could make an
appreciable saving. And it didn't really catch on.

Alek wrote:

Interesting observation Dave..Here in Dublin our new LRT system went for the
S&B machines in a big way.

I think they'd be fine for a simple metro system where there is a small
range of destinations and/or ticket types. They probably aren't a bad
choice for a secondary machine for Merseyrail, say (who have also
installed them), though I would prefer an all-destinations FastTicket
myself. The interface is appalling for an all-destinations (or
most-destinations) national network with tens if not hundreds of ticket
types.

For example, there isn't enough space on the shortcut screen to put all
the different types of tickets to London on there at MK. The
FastTicket is better, as it allows you to split that down and have
"London Terminals" and "London Travelcard 1-6" on the front screen
(plus other destinations) then break those down by ticket type/TOC
option on the next level.

Personally, I see them as a mediocre Quickfare replacement, not
anywhere near as good as the FastTicket.

Neil