On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:29:08 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote:

When Oxford's traffic system changed a couple (?) of years ago, I saw a
cyclist cycling the wrong way alongside Balliol. A policeman on duty
stopped her and gave her a pretty stern warning. The woman was
absolutely astounded - and I *mean* **astounded** - at being pulled over
for a traffic violation as she was "only on a bike". She simply could
not believe that the rules of the road applied to her.

We lived in Colchester, an army town. Public roads went through the
barracks area. A military policeman was directing traffic. My
mother ignored him, as she was not a soldier. He was very nice to
her about it :-)

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Laurence Payne wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:29:08 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote:

When Oxford's traffic system changed a couple (?) of years ago, I saw a
cyclist cycling the wrong way alongside Balliol. A policeman on duty
stopped her and gave her a pretty stern warning. The woman was
absolutely astounded - and I *mean* **astounded** - at being pulled
over for a traffic violation as she was "only on a bike". She simply
could not believe that the rules of the road applied to her.

Ah, but is that her being a demon cyclist, or a stereotypical Oxford
student with an overactive sense of entitlement?

We lived in Colchester, an army town. Public roads went through the
barracks area. A military policeman was directing traffic. My mother
ignored him, as she was not a soldier. He was very nice to her about it
:-)

Ah yes - one of the few times a Colchester teenager on the lash in town is
glad to see a policeman while drunk is when they're an MP, since you can
be quite sure they're only going to arrest *other* drunks!

And before anyone asks, i speak from experience on both counts here!

tom

--
NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:37:58 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Ah, but is that her being a demon cyclist, or a stereotypical Oxford
student with an overactive sense of entitlement?

We lived in Colchester, an army town. Public roads went through the
barracks area. A military policeman was directing traffic. My mother
ignored him, as she was not a soldier. He was very nice to her about it
:-)

Ah yes - one of the few times a Colchester teenager on the lash in town is
glad to see a policeman while drunk is when they're an MP, since you can
be quite sure they're only going to arrest *other* drunks!

And before anyone asks, i speak from experience on both counts here!

So if you were a teenager in Colchester and attended Oxford, do I
deduce that you also wore the purple blazer?

In message , Tom
Anderson writes
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Laurence Payne wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:29:08 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote:

When Oxford's traffic system changed a couple (?) of years ago, I
saw a cyclist cycling the wrong way alongside Balliol. A policeman
on duty stopped her and gave her a pretty stern warning. The woman
was absolutely astounded - and I *mean* **astounded** - at being
pulled over for a traffic violation as she was "only on a bike".
She simply could not believe that the rules of the road applied to her.

Ah, but is that her being a demon cyclist, or a stereotypical Oxford
student with an overactive sense of entitlement?
The two conditions made an interesting conjunction. And often do!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Martin Underwood wrote:
Adrian wrote in
70:


Martin Underwood ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :


Cyclists, on the other hand, often overtake cars which are
indicating left. As a car driver, I usually pull close to the kerb as
I approach a junction where I'm turning left if I've recently
overtaken a cyclist, to physically prevent him from overtaking
illegally. I wish it wasn't necessary to resort to this tactic.

It isn't necessary. Just don't overtake the cyclist if you know
you'll be turning left shortly afterwards.


It's not that simple. I may encounter the cyclist (maybe going as slowly as
5 mph when I'm going at 30) when I'm several hundred yards from the
junction. To slow down to his speed and drive behind him for ages is absurd
and would incur the wrath of other traffic. So I overtake him. Then the
lights change just as I'm approaching the lights: maybe I'm first or second
car. While I'm stopped, the cyclist catches up with me. The lights turn
green. If he's already level with me or in front of me, fine - he goes
first. But suppose he's a second or so later and is just behind me. Should I
delay setting off to let him overtake me or should he wait until I've
turned? I reckon the latter.

I think the problem stems from the design of the junction which
permits/encourages a lane of vehicles (cyclists) to the left of the stream
of cars that wants to turn left. A scheme that encouraged cyclists to
overtake on the right when there was a stream of cars waiting to turn right
would be equally absurd.


I don't see the problem.

Here in Holland, cyclists are allowed to overtake stationary or slow
moving traffic on the 'pavement-side" (which would be on the left if in
the UK". Moreover, they have right of way when they are going straight
ahead and a car is turning left. Every driver is taught that he has to
check thorougly for cyclists between them and the pavement before
turning left. If you're used to it, it's no problem at all.

In continental Europe, rules have been adapted to give cyclists the same
rights as drivers (i.e. if a cyclist comes from the right, he has
priority over the driver). IMO, this rule increases the average speed
cycling and makes the bike a more attractive mode of transport. Which,
of course, is good for the urban environment.

The problem in the UK is, I guess, on one hand that motorists aren't
used to bicycles and don't know very well how to react and anticipate on
cyclists. They don't understand how vuneralbe cyclists are in traffic.
On the other hand, cycling infrastructure isn't by far as good as it is
in some Continental countries. The UK can learn a lot from what is done
for cyclists in the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium.

Besides, it always amuses me how much protective clothing cyclists in
the UK wear. Here in Holland, a cyclist with a helmet or with reflective
clothing is laughing stock...

regards,
hgrm

Han Monsees ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Here in Holland, cyclists are allowed to overtake stationary or slow
moving traffic on the 'pavement-side" (which would be on the left if
in the UK". Moreover, they have right of way when they are going
straight ahead and a car is turning left.

Strikes me as bloody dangerous.

Every driver is taught that
he has to check thorougly for cyclists between them and the pavement
before turning left. If you're used to it, it's no problem at all.

And lethal if the driver isn't.

In continental Europe, rules have been adapted to give cyclists the
same rights as drivers (i.e. if a cyclist comes from the right, he has
priority over the driver).

Yep, same here.

IMO, this rule increases the average speed
cycling and makes the bike a more attractive mode of transport.

I think that's more to do with the, umm, flatness of NL...

Every driver is taught that
he has to check thorougly for cyclists between them and the pavement
before turning left. If you're used to it, it's no problem at all.


And lethal if the driver isn't.

Agree. But it's an chicken-and-egg-story.
If there are not too many cyclists, drivers don't get used. And if
drivers don't get used to cyclists, cycling is dangerous and people will
think twice before they start cycling.



In continental Europe, rules have been adapted to give cyclists the
same rights as drivers (i.e. if a cyclist comes from the right, he has
priority over the driver).


Yep, same here.


IMO, this rule increases the average speed
cycling and makes the bike a more attractive mode of transport.


I think that's more to do with the, umm, flatness of NL...

Many area's in the UK are equally suited for cycling.
And besides, NL isn't as flat as you might think. The eastern part of
the country has its hills. They might not be high, but there are plenty
of short but steep hills. And cycling is popular in that part, too. Both
as a means of transport and for recreational purposes.

wrote:

d wrote:
I hope the cops start some new campaign to stop cyclists riding on the
pavement and blasting through red lights. The number of times I've seen
them endangering lives is ridiculous. Their chicken attitude of "rather I
hit a pedestrian than a car hit me!" is an insult to every member of the
public.

I suggest snipers on every other building. That should do it.

Crossing Vauxhall Bridge last night, one ******* sailed through the
green pedestrian phase at high speed and actually had the nerve to call
me a **** when I shouted ****** at him.
These people are little more than scum and the sooner the police do
something the better, not that that will ever happen.

I know... about as bad as the bus I just got back off which sailed
through seven sets of red lights (mostly on Piccadilly)

In message .com of
Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:20:21 in uk.transport.london, Chris!
writes

[snip]

I know... about as bad as the bus I just got back off which sailed
through seven sets of red lights (mostly on Piccadilly)

What did YOU do about it?

I do NOT suggest reporting details to the police who are a waste of
space in such situations. A call via POTS://0207221234 or
http://www.tfl.gov.uk should result in a written response within the
month. Do not expect effective action. OTOH, I assume that a pattern of
complaint will result in a P45.

(I failed to find a deep URL at tfl at 09.30 on Saturday due to a "503 :
Error Server is busy". I do not care enough to bother John Biggs who is
my assemblyman.)
--
Walter Briscoe

Phil Clark wrote:

Cycling's too efficient, it takes all the hard work out and is
therefore not an excellent form of exercise. Walking and running are
much better...

Maybe you should switch up a gear - the hard work will suddenly be put
back in!

I'm wondering what can be done to bikes at a reasonable cost with
semiconductors these days. ISTM they'd be a lot more pleasant to ride if
instead of having to adjust gears to suit the terrain you could control
how hard the resistance force is. Does anyone yet make bikes with
electric transmission that sophisticated yet? And if so, how much do
they charge for it?

--
Aidan Stanger
http://www.bettercrossrail.co.uk