"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.

He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.

HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use
travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more
money
from them.

Business is business

Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called
"fraud".

They weren't deceiving anyone. The use of travelcards was permitted on the
service - travelcards didn't replace the HEX tickets.

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good value
ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged over the
fare - I don't get what the problem is.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message .com,
writes
I accidentally put a $20 bill into the automated machine by the driver
instead of a five. The driver spotted the mistake but the machine is a
sealed unit. Other locals behind me in the queue boarded for free at
the drivers bidding and gave me their fares to make up the difference.

That used to happen on the WMPTE Autofare Exact Fare buses here in
Birmingham when they were first introduced. And passengers behind were
happy to help.

Somewhere along the line passengers and drivers all became much less
helpful and more aggressive and now any visitor without the correct
change is made to feel in the way and as though they're holding things
up. Or they over pay. *Very* occasionally thought I have seen
drivers just wave such people on for a free ride!

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"d" wrote in message
. ..

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good
value ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged
over the fare - I don't get what the problem is.

You'll never get them to understand. Some people think businesses exist
solely to do them favours. I'd like to see how *they'd* run a business!
;-)

Ian

"d" wrote in message
. ..
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.

He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.

HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use
travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more
money
from them.

Business is business

Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called
"fraud".

They weren't deceiving anyone. The use of travelcards was permitted on
the
service - travelcards didn't replace the HEX tickets.

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good
value
ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged over the
fare - I don't get what the problem is.

Can't you? The first choice cheaper route was closed. so there was no
alternative. All these rail services are operated with a subsidy from the
tax payer, so they should be a public service. Public services should be
operated in the interests of the public. Having private companies run a
service without competition is a farce.


--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Band" wrote in message
oups.com...
CJB wrote:
snip
Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.
/snip

Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

What a load of tosh. Tourists may not pay income tax, but they will be
paying VAT on everything they consume whilst in the UK, and they are also
one of the main forms of inward trade in the UK, so everything should be
done to treat them well.


--
John Band
e: john at johnband dot org
w: www.johnband.org

Mikael Armstrong wrote:
"d" wrote in message
. ..
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you it's very funny.
He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.
He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.
HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use
travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more
money
from them.

Business is business
Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called
"fraud".
They weren't deceiving anyone. The use of travelcards was permitted on
the
service - travelcards didn't replace the HEX tickets.

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good
value
ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged over the
fare - I don't get what the problem is.

Can't you? The first choice cheaper route was closed. so there was no
alternative. All these rail services are operated with a subsidy from the
tax payer, so they should be a public service. Public services should be
operated in the interests of the public. Having private companies run a
service without competition is a farce.

Actually, I don't think HEx receives any subsidy from the tax payer -
its construction and running costs were/are entirely funded by BAA, as
it's an "open access" operator.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

d wrote:
I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket.
They aren't. They are complaining that the information that may have
enabled people to do so was not available at all ticket outlets.

No-one was ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a
really good value ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one
was charged over the fare - I don't get what the problem is.
There *may have been* some people charged over the correct fare. They
would have been the people who had intended to travel by Tube, turned up
at the Tube, found it closed, and went to HEx where they paid the full
HEx fare without being told that there was a cheaper fare available.
Having arrived at Paddington, they may even have bought a ODTC to
continue their journey, thus being overcharged by the entire amount of
the (unnecessary in their circumstances) HEx ticket.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14104763.html
(37 689, 37 668, 37 712 and 37 710 at Warrington Arpley, 21 Apr 2005)

"Mikael Armstrong" wrote in message
news
"d" wrote in message
. ..
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.

He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.

HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use
travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more
money
from them.

Business is business

Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called
"fraud".

They weren't deceiving anyone. The use of travelcards was permitted on
the
service - travelcards didn't replace the HEX tickets.

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good
value
ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged over the
fare - I don't get what the problem is.

Can't you? The first choice cheaper route was closed. so there was no
alternative. All these rail services are operated with a subsidy from the
tax payer, so they should be a public service. Public services should be
operated in the interests of the public. Having private companies run a
service without competition is a farce.


Really? How much subsidy did/do HEX receive?

"Chris Tolley" wrote in message
...
d wrote:
I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket.
They aren't. They are complaining that the information that may have
enabled people to do so was not available at all ticket outlets.

No-one was ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a
really good value ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one
was charged over the fare - I don't get what the problem is.
There *may have been* some people charged over the correct fare. They
would have been the people who had intended to travel by Tube, turned up
at the Tube, found it closed, and went to HEx where they paid the full
HEx fare without being told that there was a cheaper fare available.
Having arrived at Paddington, they may even have bought a ODTC to
continue their journey, thus being overcharged by the entire amount of
the (unnecessary in their circumstances) HEx ticket.

And they can fill in a compensation form, submit it to TfL, and wait for
some money to be sent to them

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14104763.html
(37 689, 37 668, 37 712 and 37 710 at Warrington Arpley, 21 Apr 2005)

Chris Tolley wrote:

No-one was ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got
a really good value ticket, while others paid the correct fare.
No-one was charged over the fare - I don't get what the problem is.
There *may have been* some people charged over the correct fare.
They would have been the people who had intended to travel by Tube,
turned up at the Tube, found it closed, and went to HEx where they
paid the full HEx fare without being told that there was a cheaper
fare available.

People who had intended to travel by Tube would have found the Tube
station *open* (for the service to Acton Town), but there would have
been lots of staff at the entrance to advise those who wanted to go to
central London that if they bought a Travelcard from LU, it would be
valid on HEx. At least, that's what happened last year. I wasn't there
this time, and it seems you weren't either.

If you want BAA to offer the concession to their passengers as well, who
do you propose should foot the bill and why?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)