Graeme Wall wrote in
:

All right. If you want to split hairs, maybe I should have said "the
TOC which runs the HEx service".

There isn't a TOC which runs the HEX service. HEX is operated by HEX
for the BAA.

It is not splitting hairs, it is making the point that sounding off
about TOCs and public service obligations is irrelevant in this case.
HEX has no public service obligations, it is a privately owned
business that can do what it legally likes. If you don't like it,
don't use it.

OK. So the company that runs the HEx is different to all other train
companies in that it's not a TOC? Fair enough. I didn't know that - I've
learned something. But if I'm confused, I can imagine most other lay people
will be as well. I had assumed (always dangerous, I know) that all companies
that ran trains on Network Rail tracks (at least as far as the tunnel into
Heathrow!) and used Network Rail stations were classed as TOCs and had
obligations to pool fares etc. Evidently not.

What a mess our rail system has become: some stations owned/operated by
TOCs, some owned by Network Rail; some services operated by TOCs, some
operated by companies that are not TOCs. Maybe I'm biassed because I can
remember a time when the railways were operated as a single entity with
joined-up thinking!

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
...
Graeme Wall wrote in
:

All right. If you want to split hairs, maybe I should have said "the
TOC which runs the HEx service".

There isn't a TOC which runs the HEX service. HEX is operated by HEX
for the BAA.

It is not splitting hairs, it is making the point that sounding off
about TOCs and public service obligations is irrelevant in this case.
HEX has no public service obligations, it is a privately owned
business that can do what it legally likes. If you don't like it,
don't use it.

OK. So the company that runs the HEx is different to all other train
companies in that it's not a TOC? Fair enough. I didn't know that - I've
learned something. But if I'm confused, I can imagine most other lay
people will be as well. I had assumed (always dangerous, I know) that all
companies that ran trains on Network Rail tracks (at least as far as the
tunnel into Heathrow!) and used Network Rail stations were classed as TOCs
and had obligations to pool fares etc. Evidently not.

What a mess our rail system has become: some stations owned/operated by
TOCs, some owned by Network Rail; some services operated by TOCs, some
operated by companies that are not TOCs. Maybe I'm biassed because I can
remember a time when the railways were operated as a single entity with
joined-up thinking!

The HEx is essentially a shuttle service. I don't think it's really
comparable to, say, Silverlink or First Great Western...

In message
"d" wrote:

[snip]

The HEx is essentially a shuttle service. I don't think it's really
comparable to, say, Silverlink or First Great Western...



More like the Town Car then?

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

Graeme Wall wrote:

More like the Town Car then?

The horrible spectre of a fourteen quid three minute ride in a PPM is
looking...

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683650.html
(51565 (Class 108) at Haworth, 15 Jan 2000)

Chris Tolley wrote:

Graeme Wall wrote:

More like the Town Car then?

The horrible spectre of a fourteen quid three minute ride in a PPM is
looking...

spelling correction: looming

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14104756.html
(25 198 at Warrington Bank Quay, 5 Jun 1985)

In message
Chris Tolley wrote:

Graeme Wall wrote:

More like the Town Car then?

The horrible spectre of a fourteen quid three minute ride in a PPM is
looking...


Paddington - Heathow in three minutes on flywheels would be something to see.
Preferably from a distance.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

In message , Graeme Wall
writes
In message
"d" wrote:

[snip]

The HEx is essentially a shuttle service. I don't think it's really
comparable to, say, Silverlink or First Great Western...



More like the Town Car then?

I'll be on that later today! I'll look out for the laptop charging
points, reading lights, branded headrests and magazines.......
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message
"Martin Underwood" wrote:

Graeme Wall wrote in :

All right. If you want to split hairs, maybe I should have said "the
TOC which runs the HEx service".

There isn't a TOC which runs the HEX service. HEX is operated by HEX for
the BAA.

It is not splitting hairs, it is making the point that sounding off about
TOCs and public service obligations is irrelevant in this case. HEX has
no public service obligations, it is a privately owned business that can
do what it legally likes. If you don't like it, don't use it.

OK. So the company that runs the HEx is different to all other train
companies in that it's not a TOC?

Yup. Though not /all/ other train companies are TOCs, I believe (and I sit to
be corrected) that Hull Trains isn't either.

Fair enough. I didn't know that - I've learned something. But if I'm
confused, I can imagine most other lay people will be as well. I had
assumed (always dangerous, I know) that all companies that ran trains on
Network Rail tracks (at least as far as the tunnel into Heathrow!) and
used Network Rail stations were classed as TOCs and had obligations to
pool fares etc. Evidently not.

As you say.


What a mess our rail system has become: some stations owned/operated by
TOCs, some owned by Network Rail; some services operated by TOCs, some
operated by companies that are not TOCs. Maybe I'm biassed because I can
remember a time when the railways were operated as a single entity with
joined-up thinking!



You've got a bloody good memory then, I don't remember that, though
admittedly BR in its final years came closer than the current shower.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

Martin Underwood wrote:

What a mess our rail system has become: some stations owned/operated by
TOCs, some owned by Network Rail; some services operated by TOCs, some
operated by companies that are not TOCs.

Ain't it the truth.

Maybe I'm biassed because I can remember a time when the railways were
operated as a single entity with joined-up thinking!

And summers were warmer, too... I don't think it was ever the single
entity, but at least all parts realised that they were supposed to be
working together, and the differences between the entities (let's call
them regions) didn't actually bother the customers.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p10907022.html
(56 071 at Leamington Spa, Aug 1982)

In message
Chris Tolley wrote:

Martin Underwood wrote:

What a mess our rail system has become: some stations owned/operated by
TOCs, some owned by Network Rail; some services operated by TOCs, some
operated by companies that are not TOCs.

Ain't it the truth.

Maybe I'm biassed because I can remember a time when the railways were
operated as a single entity with joined-up thinking!

And summers were warmer, too... I don't think it was ever the single
entity, but at least all parts realised that they were supposed to be
working together, and the differences between the entities (let's call
them regions) didn't actually bother the customers.

Providing you weren't trying to use, say, the Salisbury - Exeter line after
it was transferred to a rival comp^^^^ region. The Good Old Days� were never
that good I'm afraid.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html