In message .com
"b9273m" wrote:

The Kent 508's are rumoured to be wanted back by
Merseytravel.................anyone know any more?

There are no firm plans as yet, but the draft Merseyside Local Transport Plan
for 2006-10 mentions opening "negotiations" to bring the 508s back to
Liverpool. It's no secret that Merseyrail want more units, chiefly to deal
with increases in passenger numbers which weren't anticipated when the 508s
were originally taken off-lease.

As another poster has pointed out, it all depends on whether SET are prepared
to release them. Will they still be required once the Integrated Kent
Franchise gets going?

--
Robert Hampton | rhmeuk [at] roberthampton me uk | www.roberthampton.me.uk
---------------'---------------------------------'------------------------

"Robert Hampton" wrote in message
...
In message .com
"b9273m" wrote:

The Kent 508's are rumoured to be wanted back by
Merseytravel.................anyone know any more?

There are no firm plans as yet, but the draft Merseyside Local Transport
Plan
for 2006-10 mentions opening "negotiations" to bring the 508s back to
Liverpool. It's no secret that Merseyrail want more units, chiefly to deal
with increases in passenger numbers which weren't anticipated when the
508s
were originally taken off-lease.

As another poster has pointed out, it all depends on whether SET are
prepared
to release them. Will they still be required once the Integrated Kent
Franchise gets going?

I suppose they could become available once the CTRL domestics are up and
running.

Jack Taylor wrote:
b9273m wrote:
The Kent 508's are rumoured to be wanted back by
Merseytravel.................anyone know any more?

Merseytravel are reported to be short of 508s but they have no claim on the
ones that they previously discarded. If they want them back then they are
going to have to enter into some delicate negotiation with both the ROSCO
and South Eastern Trains. It's possible that some of them may become surplus
to requirements at SET and that they may make their way back north but
nothing is confirmed. SET have a lease on them and if they say they cannot
release them then Merseytravel can do nothing about it.

BTW, as a courtesy to the *majority* of readers and posters who use these
newsgroups using newsreaders (rather than Google Groups) could you please
post, in future, by NOT using the obvious 'Reply' button but by going to the
'Show Options' function and then using the 'Reply' button from there,
quoting some of the text that you are replying to. This is a fault of Google
Groups, which seems to assume that the entire world uses it for reading and
contributing to newsgroups!


Funnily enough, Google isn't displaying any of the message that you are
replying to here. Your message appears to be following my previous one.

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...
b9273m wrote:
The Kent 508's are rumoured to be wanted back by
Merseytravel.................anyone know any more?

Merseytravel are reported to be short of 508s but they have no claim on
the
ones that they previously discarded. If they want them back then they are
going to have to enter into some delicate negotiation with both the ROSCO
and South Eastern Trains. It's possible that some of them may become
surplus
to requirements at SET and that they may make their way back north but
nothing is confirmed. SET have a lease on them and if they say they cannot
release them then Merseytravel can do nothing about it.

SET don't seem to have any spare stock, and Govia are committed to
effectively the current timetable until December 2009. It is just possible
that as experience with Electrostars builds up their availability will also
increase enough to allow the 508s to be released, but I would think this
unlikely. In December 2009 the Hitachis are due and CTRL-DS should open. The
franchise specification would seem to require less stock than now, though
the local feeling is that Govia will breach PIXC (passengers in excess of
capacity) requirements if they don't run more peak trains than in the SRA
franchise specification. So itsw possible that Merseytravel will be able to
have the 508s back then.

Peter

Peter Masson wrote:

SET don't seem to have any spare stock, and Govia are committed to
effectively the current timetable until December 2009. It is just
possible that as experience with Electrostars builds up their
availability will also increase enough to allow the 508s to be
released, but I would think this unlikely.

Actually it hasn't been that uncommon in recent months to see one of the
three-car class 508 Tonbridge to London Bridge diagrams being covered by a
three-car Electrostar (375/3), so there is certainbly some flexibility in
the fleet at present, although I suspect that it will be as a result of IKF
and the improved performance of the 375s that may eventually allow SET to
rid themselves of the small non-standard fleet of 508s.

Mizter T wrote:

This sounds like great news. Using the North London Line can be
depressing. The trains are squalid and it's quite clear that Silverlink
couldn't give a damn. The line is interesting from a railway point of
view, but as a passenger it's certainly not a great travelling
experience.

You think so? I like the trains. I like seats facing the front and back
instead of facing sideways. I also like the fact that I can put my bike
on the train - they might allow that with Tfl in charge but probably
only off-peak which means I couldn't use the line to get to work, which
can be quite useful at times.

The fact that Tube stations are staffed and are generally friendly and
welcoming places, as opposed to many railway stations, really makes a
difference to how people choose to travel, particularly in the
evenings/after dark. TfL's plans staff stations, or staff them later,
along with a proactive attitude to custodianship of stations and trains
will really make a difference I'm sure.

The plus side would be that and more frequent trains, assuming there
would be, that is.
Ideally also create a new station in Hampstead for interchange with the
Northern Line. Now that would be useful. Would also serve the Royal
Free Hospital better than Belsize Park currently does.

I doubt the NLL will ever make a profit, but thankfully that's not the
objective of the Mayor. I look forward to TfL's further involvement in
London's railways.

An improvement to the West London Line would also be a good thing. But
hopefully with the current type of trains.

Jack Taylor wrote:

BTW, as a courtesy to the *majority* of readers and posters who use these
newsgroups using newsreaders (rather than Google Groups) could you please
post, in future, by NOT using the obvious 'Reply' button but by going to the
'Show Options' function and then using the 'Reply' button from there,
quoting some of the text that you are replying to. This is a fault of Google
Groups, which seems to assume that the entire world uses it for reading and
contributing to newsgroups!

In this instance quoting would not have been useful. Speculation about
where 508s could go is not directly relevant to whether Merseytravel
want them. Quoting would of course be useful if it was the other way
round.

BTW there are newsreaders out there which easily let you find the
unquoted context - you don't have to use google.

--
Aidan Stanger
http://www.bettercrossrail.co.uk

Aidan Stanger wrote:

BTW there are newsreaders out there which easily let you find the
unquoted context - you don't have to use google.

Irrelevant, the majority of users (like it or loathe it) use Outlook
Express. Understandably, there are an increasing number of inexperienced
users who are now drawn to Google Groups but who are unaware of its
deficiencies. It's useful from time to time to alert them to the problems
that they are causing for others and to advise them where they are not
following the conventions of the group and to try and encourage them to do
so.

Nobody is going to bother to back-reference through Google Groups or any
other newsreader to try and find the unquoted context, just to respond to a
posting. As a result the (likely) valuable and interesting contributions and
observations being made are likely to be completely ignored or, as some NG
contributors have indicated that they do, postings from those sources will
be just be killfiled or deleted with a rule.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Jack Taylor wrote, seen on uk.railway:

Aidan Stanger wrote:

BTW there are newsreaders out there which easily let you find the
unquoted context - you don't have to use google.

Irrelevant, the majority of users (like it or loathe it) use Outlook
Express.

Irrelevant. Good netiquette has been developed to work with any
newsreader client which approaches compatibility with usenet
guidelines. I'm told that even OE can be coaxed into working as a
reasonably usenet-compatible client, and there are FAQs about how to
do that; indeed you seem to have achieved it yourself.

If you (the generic "you") follow good netiquette, then it shouldn't
matter (minor niggles excepted), to anyone except yourself, *which*
news client you use.

If you're *developing* news client software, on the other hand, or
even if you're trying to decide which news client to use, you can
review its adequacy against the criteria in the good-netkeeping FAQ,
e.g http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/soft...tkeeping-seal/

Understandably, there are an increasing number of inexperienced
users who are now drawn to Google Groups but who are unaware of its
deficiencies.

GG purports to its users (and I suspect that many of its users believe
it) to be a web-based forum system that has been invented and is
supplied by Google; the fact that they are merely gatewaying to a
long-standing worldwide Usenet system is conveniently hidden. As
such, it's no surprise that GG's users, by and large, seem to imagine
that they can set their own rules of behaviour, ignoring the good
practice which has been developed over many years. (rfc1036 and its
several never-finished descendants, nowadays represented by the USEFOR
draft).

It's useful from time to time to alert them to the problems that
they are causing for others and to advise them where they are not
following the conventions of the group and to try and encourage them
to do so.

You're entitled to your opinions of course, but I reckon that's a
waste of time and effort, as well as creating significant quantities
of low-value noise on the groups.

If GG cared about the behaviour of its users, it would be offering
them better advice about how to participate (and about what it is that
they are participating in), and giving them better software for doing
it. Until they do, my default assumption is to ignore their users -
with a few honourable exceptions.

A pity, since Google's search engines are a valuable resource; but
their entry into usenet has been the worst thing to happen to usenet
for a long time - "Eternal September" with knobs on.

[f'ups narrowed. I suppose I really should have redirected further
discussion into the news.* hierarchy...]

best regards

wrote:

Furthermore (and I think I said this before on this NG) the creation of
a new station about 350m east of North Acton, in the middle of the
triangle formed by the Central Line, West Coast Main Line and NLL would
be very useful - especially if the FGW/Heathrow Connect stopping
patterns were adjusted so that all trains that stopped at Ealing B
stopped also at this new station. North Acton and Acton Main Line could
be closed, as could Acton Central (replaced perhaps with a new stop
over Uxbridge Road to intersect directly with the West London Tram). I
go past it every day and there is nothing on that triangular site.

I would have thought that a better option would have been interchange
on the WLL and GW mainline, after all, how many people would want to go
to Richmond but the WLL still gives the option to go to Willesden or
Clapham. There is always a link to the central line at Ealing anyway.

Kevin