MIG wrote:
asdf wrote:
On 26 Mar 2006 11:01:01 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

True. If you have some PAYG credit loaded on your Oyster, but haven't
touched in, it's no different from having money in your pocket and the
intention of paying at your destination. In a Penalty Fare area, you're
liable for a penalty in both cases.

I don't think it's the same, because you have already paid TfL for your
prepay credit which can only be used for travel.

It certainly *can* be used for travel, but won't be unless you
actually touch in and out.

So not touching in and out is still evading the fare. There are
stickers in Tube carriages saying you're liable for a Penalty Fare if
you don't have a valid ticket or "validated Oyster card".

I'm sure it's in the rules, but it's not obvious to the everyday
traveller that the gate which registers the fact that you've got a
valid travelcard at that station is "validating" your prepay, just in
case you go out of your zone.

Why not? How else would they validate it?

Is there a time limit on this validation?

2 hours has been mentioned here in the (not very recent) past.

One might have touched in several times before this and not touched
out. For example, if you regularly travelled from Oxford Circus to
Canary Wharf and back with a zone 1 and 2 travelcard, all your
touchings in and out would be at Oxford Circus (to get through the
gates).

Only if you weren't following the instruction to always touch in and
out.


Is there an instruction to touch in and out with a travelcard for
journeys entirely within the zones that it covers? I've used the DLR
and bendibuses without ever touching in or out. I've also touched out
of gated NR stations without having touched in at an ungated terminus
like Waterloo. It's never a problem.

If one day you got back in the DLR and headed for West Ruislip
via Bank, would the previous touching in at Oxford Circus be deemed to
be the start of your journey, or would it work out that you'd taken too
long?

If you exceeded the time limit for that journey, presumably you'd end
up with two unresolved journeys, one unfinished and the other
unstarted.

Why the unfinished one? I've used the DLR and bendy buses with a valid
travelcard without ever touching in or out. I've also touched in at
gated NR stations without touching out an ungated terminus like
Waterloo (in fact gone all the way from a gated SWT station to an
ungated SET station and back a number of times, only ever touching at
the one end). It's never a problem when scanned with the handheld
things later. Why would it be when I've got a travelcard?

What if I didn't have any prepay, but just the travelcard? Touching in
and out would never relate to my credit being charged, because I
wouldn't have any.

The logic of the last point seems to be that by paying for prepay
credit, I am open to accusations of trying not to use it, which I would
not be open to if I didn't buy any credit at all.

I'm not asking for a defence of the indefensible. I'm just expressing
the fact that, whatever rule is explained to me, there is always a
niggling problem and/or inconsistency with these cursed cards that are
supposed to be improving flexibility.

It must be down to some fundamental flaw which I'm having trouble
putting my finger on.


OR ... are we actually saying that a travelcard is actually somehow
UNVALIDATED by not touching in at the start of the journey, in case you
go beyond your zones, with or without prepay?

If so, this is a huge extra restriction on Oyster that wouldn't apply
to paper tickets. (But I don't think it is the case, from both
instinct and experience.)