In article ,
(Martin Underwood) wrote:

Richard J. wrote in
:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

... or the drivers didn't have the nearside mirror properly
adjusted. The mirror check should be done *before* starting to
turn; the articulation of the lorry (or bendy bus) is not relevant.

If the cyclists were riding responsibly, they shouldn't even have
been in a position where the driver of the bus *needed* to check his
left-hand mirror before turning left. The rule is simple: never never
even begin to overtake a vehicle that is indicating to turn towards
you. On the approach to a junction, assume that any vehicle in front
of you might be planning to turn left or that you may not have seen
his indicator, so don't overtake near junctions.

The Highway Code lists "near junctions" as being one of the places
not to overtake a vehicle on the right; it should really extend this
to prohibiting cyclists from overtaking on the left near a junction.
Unfortunately many marked bike lanes extend right up to the junction
(eg traffic lights) and so are seen to be encouraging rather than
prohibiting such an action.

Half the problem is that bikes (both pedal and motor) try to take
advantage of their narrow width to get right to the front of a queue
of traffic, rather than waiting their turn like everyone else. And I
say that from the perspective of a cyclist as well as a driver - when
I'm on my bike I always resist the temptation to overtake cars on the
left near junctions, because as a driver I'm aware of how dangerous
it can be.

You are making number of unwarranted assumptions there, especially about
queuing.

There has to be a duty on drivers of large vehicles to ensure no other
vehicles are in their way, no matter where they are going.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

There has to be a duty on drivers of large vehicles to ensure no other
vehicles are in their way, no matter where they are going.

There is also a (moral) duty on the drivers of smaller vehicles to have
consideration for other vehicles on the road, including larger ones.
This would include cyclists or motorcyclists not overtaking other
vehicles on the left where they are turning left, and it also includes,
for example, giving a lorry a wide berth on a roundabout. It would
include not blocking a faster vehicle from overtaking a slower one. It
would include many other courtesies.

Sadly, many drivers (of vehicles of all kinds, large and small, powered
and unpowered, passenger and goods) do not drive with this in mind. If
they did, the roads would be a far more pleasant and far safer place
for everyone on them.

Neil

In article .com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

There has to be a duty on drivers of large vehicles to ensure no
other vehicles are in their way, no matter where they are going.

There is also a (moral) duty on the drivers of smaller vehicles to
have consideration for other vehicles on the road, including larger
ones.
This would include cyclists or motorcyclists not overtaking other
vehicles on the left where they are turning left, and it also
includes, for example, giving a lorry a wide berth on a roundabout. It
would include not blocking a faster vehicle from overtaking a slower
one. It would include many other courtesies.

I'm not sure where the left turning vehicle is coming from behind, how a
cyclist or anyone else is supposed to do that.

Sadly, many drivers (of vehicles of all kinds, large and small,
powered and unpowered, passenger and goods) do not drive with this in
mind. If they did, the roads would be a far more pleasant and far safer
place for everyone on them.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

This would include cyclists or motorcyclists not overtaking other
vehicles on the left where they are turning left, and it also
includes, for example, giving a lorry a wide berth on a roundabout. It
would include not blocking a faster vehicle from overtaking a slower
one. It would include many other courtesies.

I'm not sure where the left turning vehicle is coming from behind, how a
cyclist or anyone else is supposed to do that.

Do what? A considerate bus driver wouldn't turn left onto another
vehicle that was already there. They should be booked if they do.

A considerate cyclist, OTOH, wouldn't overtake a bus on the left if,
for example, it was indicating to turn left but moving slower than the
cyclist. Arguably, it is a poor idea to overtake on the left of any
vehicle. If the bus is at a stop but unable to pull in for whatever
reason, it is particularly stupid - yet I've seen it.

Neil