In article . 170,
(Adrian) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

Some Bendibuses (including some or all on routes 29 and 73) have
a yellow triangle sign on the rear with a black bicycle with an X
across it.

a) What is it supposed to mean?

Don't overtake on the left, as you'll end up either:
a) dead, under the bus
b) dead, under 20 disembarking bus passengers

b) Why this anti-bike attitude from TfL?

It's not anti-bike. It's anti-getting-people-killed-for-no-reason.

I don;t think you understand cycling.

Quite obviously we don't understand it in the same way as you do.

If that "understanding" involves a perceived right to go wherever the
**** you want because you're in the right, then I don't think I want
to.

May I recommend www.highwaycode.gov.uk

In a wide main road like Euston Road, a bendi-bus pulls in regardless of
cyclists riding where they should, close to the kerb. They are then
almost impossible to pass safely. I suggest you try it sometime instead
of pontificating.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In a wide main road like Euston Road, a bendi-bus pulls in regardless of
cyclists riding where they should, close to the kerb.

So long as it doesn't side-swipe them in doing so, I fail to see the
problem. Buses stop in bus stops. This is to be expected, and it
doesn't do any harm for other road users to assist them in doing so.

They are then
almost impossible to pass safely.

It is impossible to pass a stopped or left-turning bus (of any type)
safely on the left. There is always a significant chance of it
disgorging passengers or turning onto you. The right is the correct
place to pass, if appropriate. If the driver pulls out onto you while
doing that, he is an idiot.

The sign on the bus is only reinforcing that point.

I suggest you try it sometime instead
of pontificating.

I have done on a few occasions, and (while it didn't involve bendies)
spent a few years regularly cycling on Oxford Road in Manchester, which
has rather more buses than the Euston Road. I was only knocked into
once by a bus that pulled in a bit soon in that time; he was duly
informed of his error.

Neil

In article . com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In a wide main road like Euston Road, a bendi-bus pulls in
regardless of cyclists riding where they should, close to the kerb.

So long as it doesn't side-swipe them in doing so, I fail to see the
problem. Buses stop in bus stops. This is to be expected, and it
doesn't do any harm for other road users to assist them in doing so.

It carves cyclists up by pulling right in front of them to a stop. They
should of course let the cyclist pass the bus stop first but they don't.

They are then almost impossible to pass safely.

It is impossible to pass a stopped or left-turning bus (of any type)
safely on the left. There is always a significant chance of it
disgorging passengers or turning onto you. The right is the correct
place to pass, if appropriate. If the driver pulls out onto you while
doing that, he is an idiot.

If you try to pass on the right the bus pulls out into you. Most
cyclists don't have time to pass 18m of bus while it's stopped.

The sign on the bus is only reinforcing that point.

In which case why only on the 73 and some 29s? The routes are not even
run by the same company.

I suggest you try it sometime instead of pontificating.

I have done on a few occasions, and (while it didn't involve bendies)
spent a few years regularly cycling on Oxford Road in Manchester,
which has rather more buses than the Euston Road. I was only knocked
into once by a bus that pulled in a bit soon in that time; he was duly
informed of his error.

My preference is not to use that bit of Euston Road at all, as I don't
need to in the other direction. But that involves a walk under Camden
Town Hall.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

It carves cyclists up by pulling right in front of them to a stop. They
should of course let the cyclist pass the bus stop first but they don't.

Depends what you mean by "carves up". If the cyclist has to emergency
brake, sure. If you mean they continue a committed overtake then pull
in after the bell was pressed, I don't have a problem with it. Would
you otherwise propose that a bus (which can typically travel at up to
30mph in a city) should always follow behind cyclists (most of whom are
travelling at a much slower speed) and never overtake? If so you are
being unrealistic.

If you try to pass on the right the bus pulls out into you. Most
cyclists don't have time to pass 18m of bus while it's stopped.

Then the bus driver - that specific one - is incompetent. He should
not start to pull out until it is clear to do so.

In which case why only on the 73 and some 29s? The routes are not even
run by the same company.

No idea.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote in message
:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

It carves cyclists up by pulling right in front of them to a stop.
They should of course let the cyclist pass the bus stop first but
they don't.

Depends what you mean by "carves up". If the cyclist has to emergency
brake, sure. If you mean they continue a committed overtake then pull
in after the bell was pressed, I don't have a problem with it. Would
you otherwise propose that a bus (which can typically travel at up to
30mph in a city) should always follow behind cyclists (most of whom
are travelling at a much slower speed) and never overtake? If so you
are being unrealistic.

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left hand
side of the road. Normally this is a sensible thing to do, but it becomes a
problem when the vehicle that is planning to turn left or to pull over to
the kerb to park (eg a bus at a bus stop) has to cross the cycle lane.
Normally, anyone planning to turn left would position themselves in the very
left-hand lane, but this option is not available where there is a cycle lane
(which powered vehicles are prohibited to use in normal cirumstances).

The solution is to discontinue the cycle lane (with an implied give way sign
where it ends) for X yards before any junction or bus stop, to give
left-turning traffic to move over to the left kerb.


If you try to pass on the right the bus pulls out into you. Most
cyclists don't have time to pass 18m of bus while it's stopped.

So as a cyclist (or a car driver) you have to judge whether there's going to
be enough time to complete your overtaking before the bus will be ready to
set off. If the bus has just stopped, you probably have time even on a
bicycle; if it's been stopped for a while, as you will have seen as you are
approaching it, then it's likely that it will want to set off so you should
maybe not start to overtake. 10 mph, a fairly slow speed for a bike, is
about 4.5 m/sec, so it will take about 4 seconds to overtake the bus. Buses
usually stop for a lot longer than this!

Then the bus driver - that specific one - is incompetent. He should
not start to pull out until it is clear to do so.

This isn't a problem that's confined to bicycles overtaking buses. I've had
problems in a car when overtaking a parked bus.

If the bus is stopped and indicating left, it's reasonable to assume that it
doesn't intend to set off in the next few seconds, and that it's safe to
overtake it, having checked that there's no oncoming traffic in advance (*).

If, as you are passing it, the driver decides that he's ready to set off, he
can indicate. This *should* mean "don't start to overtake, but if you're
already committed to overtaking, I'll wait for you to pull in front of me".
Sadly, a lot of bus drivers seem to think that indicating right means that
they can immediately pull out.

In general, if a vehicle is parked in a layby (as opposed to being in the
lane in front of me), I may let it pull out ahead of me, but itf it's a bus,
I will almost always do so - I thing there's a rule in the Highway Code
which says that you should let buses pull out.



(*) Many people pull right up behind buses, then try to overtake when
they've no way of seeing oncoming traffic! I've had one guy very nearly run
into the back of me because he wasn't expecting me to stop a couple of
car-lengths behind a bus where I still had a view of the oncoming traffic.

Martin Underwood (a@b) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left
hand side of the road.

No, the problem is the excessive length of bendibuses.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Martin Underwood (a@b) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left
hand side of the road.

No, the problem is the excessive length of bendibuses.

No, it isn't. That has just been demonstrated. It takes a few seconds to
overtake a bendibus, which is about a second more than a regular bus. I
don't see how that's enough to reduce grown men to crying children.

In article . 170,
(Adrian) wrote:

Martin Underwood (a@b) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left
hand side of the road.

No, the problem is the excessive length of bendibuses.

Ah! We agree!

I wonder how long the fashion for them will last. I noted on a visit to
York on Saturday that some of theirs have been replaced by double deckers.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , a@b
(Martin Underwood) wrote:

Neil Williams wrote in message
:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

It carves cyclists up by pulling right in front of them to a stop.
They should of course let the cyclist pass the bus stop first but
they don't.

Depends what you mean by "carves up". If the cyclist has to
emergency, brake, sure. If you mean they continue a committed
overtake then pull, in after the bell was pressed, I don't have a
problem with it. Would, you otherwise propose that a bus (which can
typically travel at up to, 30mph in a city) should always follow
behind cyclists (most of whom are travelling at a much slower speed)
and never overtake? If so you, are being unrealistic.

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left
hand side of the road. Normally this is a sensible thing to do, but
it becomes a problem when the vehicle that is planning to turn left
or to pull over to the kerb to park (eg a bus at a bus stop) has to
cross the cycle lane. Normally, anyone planning to turn left would
position themselves in the very left-hand lane, but this option is
not available where there is a cycle lane (which powered vehicles are
prohibited to use in normal cirumstances).

The solution is to discontinue the cycle lane (with an implied give
way sign where it ends) for X yards before any junction or bus stop,
to give left-turning traffic to move over to the left kerb.

No. The answer, implemented somewhat inconsistently in London and
elsewhere, is advanced stop boxes for cyclists.

But none of the places where I have found problems with bendibuses as a
cyclist involve them turning left anyway.

They're a general menace (nothing cycle-specific) turning right at
Cambridge Circus because they block the road completely at times. The
RMs never did that.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote in
:

In article , a@b
(Martin Underwood) wrote:

Neil Williams wrote in message
:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

The solution is to discontinue the cycle lane (with an implied give
way sign where it ends) for X yards before any junction or bus stop,
to give left-turning traffic to move over to the left kerb.

No. The answer, implemented somewhat inconsistently in London and
elsewhere, is advanced stop boxes for cyclists.

Only if the rule is that you cannot overtake vehicles on the left to reach
the advance stop box if it involves you doing so in the last few yards
before the junction where you may come in conflict with vehicles which
should, by rights, be allowed to position themselves properly for turning
left. In other words, if you are already at the head of the queue as you
approach the lights, you are allowed to move further forward than everyone
else to give you an advanced start at the lights but if you are not already
there you must wait your turn like everyone else. That's always assuming
that traffic lights apply to cyclists; the majority of cyclists in Oxford
seem to think that they are exempt from obeying traffic lights and zebra
crossings ;-)

But none of the places where I have found problems with bendibuses as
a cyclist involve them turning left anyway.

Oh, sorry. I thought this thread was about cyclists who had been injured or
killed by buses etc which were turning left (possibly without the driver
checking his left mirror) and hit cyclists trying illegally to overtake on
the left to go straight on.