"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Martin Underwood (a@b) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left
hand side of the road.

No, the problem is the excessive length of bendibuses.

No, it isn't. That has just been demonstrated. It takes a few seconds to
overtake a bendibus, which is about a second more than a regular bus. I
don't see how that's enough to reduce grown men to crying children.

d wrote:

No, it isn't. That has just been demonstrated. It takes a few seconds to
overtake a bendibus, which is about a second more than a regular bus. I
don't see how that's enough to reduce grown men to crying children.

They are also widely used in London, and have been in the UK since
being introduced to Manchester somewhere around 1999. Nothing new, and
not seemingly causing too many problems there.

If they are being driven improperly, that's a problem, but a full-size
non-articulated bus could be just as dangerous in such a situation.

Neil

Neil Williams ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

No, it isn't. That has just been demonstrated. It takes a few
seconds to overtake a bendibus, which is about a second more than a
regular bus. I don't see how that's enough to reduce grown men to
crying children.

They are also widely used in London, and have been in the UK since
being introduced to Manchester somewhere around 1999. Nothing new,
and not seemingly causing too many problems there.

I must mis-remember the ones in Sheffield in the 70s, then...

Hiho.

But the problem with them in London IS real - they are just far too long
for the traffic conditions. They cause chaos.

Adrian wrote:

I must mis-remember the ones in Sheffield in the 70s, then...

Ah, yes, forgot those...

But the problem with them in London IS real - they are just far too long
for the traffic conditions. They cause chaos.

They cause changing expectations, but in time drivers (of the buses,
and of other vehicles) will get used to them, IMO, and the "chaos"
(which I believe to be overstated) will subside.

By that I mean shorter stopping times, and the practicalities of
driving a longer vehicle. We could also do with some junction changes
and bus stop layout changes, but that's a minor point, and also applies
to the Routemaster to longer OPO DD changes, e.g. on Oxford Street
where the bus stop layout seems illogical, but people ignored it for
years because they just boarded/alighted where they liked.

Neil

d wrote:
Martin Underwood (a@b) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

No, the problem is the excessive length of bendibuses.

No, it isn't. That has just been demonstrated. It takes a few seconds to
overtake a bendibus, which is about a second more than a regular bus. ...

That extra second is significant. It prevents cyclists safely passing
bendibuses at the front of the queue at traffic lights, because it's
just long enough for the light to get from red to green and the bus to
move off. With an ordinary bus, even in the worst case you can reach
the front before it moves.

The extra length also seems to reduce drivers' willingness to wait for
a cyclist to get past before moving off from a stop. And it also means
that by the time you are back at the back of the bus and can pull in,
anything behind the bus is going considerably faster than you are.

In theory, it's not good to start to pass any bus after it starts to
signal to move off. But you have the right of way, and the bus driver
should let you go if you don't give way. The reason I often start to
pass stopped buses that are already signalling is that many bus
drivers start indicating long before they are ready to go. I've lost
count of the number of times I've had to stop behind a bus because
it's signalled to start off but hasn't moved.

Colin McKenzie

Colin McKenzie ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

That extra second is significant. It prevents cyclists safely passing
bendibuses at the front of the queue at traffic lights, because it's
just long enough for the light to get from red to green and the bus to
move off. With an ordinary bus, even in the worst case you can reach
the front before it moves.

So, perhaps, just maybe, the cyclist could *wait behind the bus* at lights?
Or is there some secret reason that I "wouldn't understand, and should try
some time" as to why that can't happen?

In theory, it's not good to start to pass any bus after it starts to
signal to move off. But you have the right of way, and the bus driver
should let you go if you don't give way.

I've already recommended the HC to you - perhaps I ought to recommend it
again?

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.htm#143 (last point)
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/20.htm#198

In article . 170,
(Adrian) wrote:

So, perhaps, just maybe, the cyclist could *wait behind the bus* at
lights? Or is there some secret reason that I "wouldn't understand,
and should try some time" as to why that can't happen?

Given how much better a cyclist's standing start acceleration is than
that of a bus, why should they? When I wait beside or in front of a bus
at lights I am always well across the junction before the bus gets near
me.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

So, perhaps, just maybe, the cyclist could *wait behind the bus* at
lights? Or is there some secret reason that I "wouldn't understand,
and should try some time" as to why that can't happen?

Given how much better a cyclist's standing start acceleration is than
that of a bus, why should they? When I wait beside or in front of a bus
at lights I am always well across the junction before the bus gets near
me.

Right. So there's no problem if boyracers shove their way to the front of
the queue, then - after all, they'll be quicker away.

Colin Rosenstiel wrote in
:

In article . 170,
(Adrian) wrote:

So, perhaps, just maybe, the cyclist could *wait behind the bus* at
lights? Or is there some secret reason that I "wouldn't understand,
and should try some time" as to why that can't happen?

Given how much better a cyclist's standing start acceleration is than
that of a bus, why should they? When I wait beside or in front of a
bus at lights I am always well across the junction before the bus
gets near me.

Maybe if I drove a ****-hot sports car, capable of 0-60 in 2 seconds, I
should be allowed to go to the head of the queue as well for the same reason
;-)

I take your point about acceleration, but one of the problems that letting
cyclists go ahead causes is that although their 0-10 mph times may be better
than a bus, they cannot sustain that to the speed limit of the road (eg 30
mph), so any powered vehicle will only need to overtake them on the far side
of the junction.

Colin McKenzie wrote:

That extra second is significant. It prevents cyclists safely passing
bendibuses at the front of the queue at traffic lights, because it's
just long enough for the light to get from red to green and the bus to
move off. With an ordinary bus, even in the worst case you can reach
the front before it moves.

Why do you have to get past everything? If the lights are about to
change, and the bus is about to move, you might as well wait for it.
It'll only overtake you half an inch further up the road anyway.

Neil