Dave Arquati wrote:

As other posters have suggested, Aldwych was probably doomed from its
birth. If Aldwych were reopened today with through services to Cockfosters
(which in itself is physically difficult), I think demand would still be
poor for two reasons:
....
2. Even if served by a relatively high frequency, it's just too near other
Piccadilly stations to be particularly useful - even Holborn is only a few
minutes' walk away, and Covent Garden is much more useful for the key
theatre-going market.

And yet which station on the Picadilly Line is so over capacity that it
frequently has to limit passenger access and could really benefit from a
nearby alternative station?

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

As other posters have suggested, Aldwych was probably doomed from its
birth. If Aldwych were reopened today with through services to Cockfosters
(which in itself is physically difficult), I think demand would still be
poor for two reasons:
....
2. Even if served by a relatively high frequency, it's just too near other
Piccadilly stations to be particularly useful - even Holborn is only a few
minutes' walk away, and Covent Garden is much more useful for the key
theatre-going market.

And yet which station on the Picadilly Line is so over capacity that it
frequently has to limit passenger access and could really benefit from a
nearby alternative station?

The only feasible alternatives are Holborn and Leicester Square. As an
alternative to Covent Garden, Aldwych would be fairly useless, given the
slow access and egress, and its northbound orientation.

I also wouldn't separate point one (the effect on the rest of the line)
from point two. Trains that went to Aldwych wouldn't be able to go to
Covent Garden or Leicester Square, making overcrowding at those stations
worse. The solution to Covent Garden overcrowding is to increase
capacity at Covent Garden, not to reopen a station that would be of
little use to the majority of people heading to the area.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:

And yet which station on the Picadilly Line is so over capacity that it
frequently has to limit passenger access and could really benefit from a
nearby alternative station?

The only feasible alternatives are Holborn and Leicester Square. As an
alternative to Covent Garden, Aldwych would be fairly useless, given the
slow access and egress, and its northbound orientation.

I also wouldn't separate point one (the effect on the rest of the line)
from point two. Trains that went to Aldwych wouldn't be able to go to
Covent Garden or Leicester Square, making overcrowding at those stations
worse. The solution to Covent Garden overcrowding is to increase capacity
at Covent Garden, not to reopen a station that would be of little use to
the majority of people heading to the area.

How serious are the suggestions in circulation for both a Waterloo-King's
Cross St. Pancras route and reviving the old Fleet Line plans for Charing
Cross to Ludgate Circus and beyond? The natural interchange for them is
Aldwych and the former project could make use of the branch tunnels,
although frankly at Holborn they'd either need a proper connection to the
Picadilly (I saw the other day that Aldwych was built with three lift shafts
and multiple exit routes from the platforms - yet another example of an over
elaborate station being uselessly inaccessible for through services) or else
build a new line to King's Cross St Pancras.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 20:22:34 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

How serious are the suggestions in circulation for both a Waterloo-King's
Cross St. Pancras route

Fairly serious, but it would be a surface tramway running Camden Town
- Peckham/Brixton (ish).

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Dave Arquati wrote:
The only feasible alternatives are Holborn and Leicester Square. As an
alternative to Covent Garden, Aldwych would be fairly useless, given the
slow access and egress, and its northbound orientation.

I also wouldn't separate point one (the effect on the rest of the line)
from point two. Trains that went to Aldwych wouldn't be able to go to
Covent Garden or Leicester Square, making overcrowding at those stations
worse. The solution to Covent Garden overcrowding is to increase
capacity at Covent Garden, not to reopen a station that would be of
little use to the majority of people heading to the area.

ISTR reading many years ago (1996 or so) that there was a plan for
escalators at Covent Garden. I'm pretty sure it was from an official
London Underground pamphlet about overall improvements to the
Piccadilly Line. I wonder why that never happened.

Patrick

In message .com,
writes

ISTR reading many years ago (1996 or so) that there was a plan for
escalators at Covent Garden. I'm pretty sure it was from an official
London Underground pamphlet about overall improvements to the
Piccadilly Line. I wonder why that never happened.

Cost. It would require a second ticket hall for starters. But I think
escalators are still being considered as a longer term remedy. In the
meantime, there are some quite expensive improvements to the existing
layout planned for next year.

--
Paul Terry

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Trains that went to Aldwych wouldn't be able to go to Covent Garden or
Leicester Square, making
overcrowding at those stations worse.

No. The bottleneck at Covent Garden is the lifts. Reducing train capacity
wouldn't make the crowding problems worse.

John Rowland wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Trains that went to Aldwych wouldn't be able to go to Covent Garden or
Leicester Square, making
overcrowding at those stations worse.

No. The bottleneck at Covent Garden is the lifts. Reducing train capacity
wouldn't make the crowding problems worse.

OK - but platform crowding levels (as opposed to overcrowding) would
increase, because a similar number of people to now would be waiting
longer for their trains. (I admit that overcrowding would not be worse.)

I'll revise my statement: crowding levels at Leicester Square would
certainly increase (potentially leading to overcrowding), as they would
at every station west thereof.

Running direct trains to Aldwych would have a detrimental effect on
Piccadilly line crowding at *all* stations - both to the west, where
frequency would drop from 30tph-ish by however many trains diverted to
Aldwych, and to the east, where passengers for stations beyond Holborn
would wait for a through train.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London