I hold a paper travelcard for zones 1-4 (issued at a national rail
station), and occasionally need to travel to zone 5. Until last
December I always paid the difference in cash before the journey, but
the penal hike of cash fares meant that I have now bought a pay as you
go oyster. At the time of purchase (at Victoria TfL enquiry office) I
asked how I should use it for a such a zone extension - if I touched in
at the start of the journey I would presumably be charged for the Z1-4
section for which I already hold a travelcard. Yet once on the train
there is no way to validate the ticket on passing into Z5. The reply
was to tell staff at my destination station who would then deduct the
correct amount from the card.

Well, yesterday I tried this for the first time, travelling to
Cockfosters. Staff there absolutely refused to deduct the correct
amount, saying I should put the whole journey on the oyster card. I
pointed out (politely) that I was following TfL advice, but that made
no difference. After about ten minutes arguing they let me through the
barrier (so I got a free ride), but this is clearly unsatisfactory.

How should I temporarily extend the range of a paper travelcard using
PAYG oyster?

Peter

peter wrote:
I hold a paper travelcard for zones 1-4 (issued at a national rail
station), and occasionally need to travel to zone 5. Until last
December I always paid the difference in cash before the journey, but
the penal hike of cash fares meant that I have now bought a pay as you
go oyster. At the time of purchase (at Victoria TfL enquiry office) I
asked how I should use it for a such a zone extension - if I touched in
at the start of the journey I would presumably be charged for the Z1-4
section for which I already hold a travelcard. Yet once on the train
there is no way to validate the ticket on passing into Z5. The reply
was to tell staff at my destination station who would then deduct the
correct amount from the card.

Well, yesterday I tried this for the first time, travelling to
Cockfosters. Staff there absolutely refused to deduct the correct
amount, saying I should put the whole journey on the oyster card. I
pointed out (politely) that I was following TfL advice, but that made
no difference. After about ten minutes arguing they let me through the
barrier (so I got a free ride), but this is clearly unsatisfactory.

How should I temporarily extend the range of a paper travelcard using

That's a bit of a dilemma. I think the initial advice was a bit off the
mark - I'm not surprised the staff at Cockfosters were reluctant about it.

The only truly satisfactory solution seems to me to exchange your paper
Z1-4 travelcard for an Oyster version from a Tube station at the
earliest opportunity.

Failing that, the only alternatives are either to stump up for the cash
extensions, or to break your journey in order to touch in. Some places
may be easier to do this than others - it's worth remembering that at
least in the evenings and weekends, any non-Z1 fare is £1, so you could
touch in somewhere easy like Highbury & Islington (which has platform
validators next to the Victoria line platforms).

Elsewhere, you wouldn't have to necessarily leave the gateline, but
could touch your Oyster in on the side gate validator (probably getting
a strange look from the gate staff in the process). Sometimes I have to
go through this process at King's Cross when connecting to or from
Thameslink if the validators in the interchange tunnel aren't working.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Yet
once on the train
there is no way to validate the ticket on passing into Z5. The reply
was to tell staff at my destination station who would then deduct the
correct amount from the card.

That doesn't sound right. As I understand it, if you have a paper ticket
you are actually supposed to break your journey at the point where you start
using Pre-Pay. There used to be a statement to this effect on the
Oystercard website but when they merged it into the TfL site they seemed to
think 'Ask Oystercard' was all they really needed and I can't find it on
there.

G.

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:54:35 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

That's a bit of a dilemma. I think the initial advice was a bit off the
mark - I'm not surprised the staff at Cockfosters were reluctant about it.

Yep - sounds like dodgy advice to me.

The only truly satisfactory solution seems to me to exchange your paper
Z1-4 travelcard for an Oyster version from a Tube station at the
earliest opportunity.

Is that even possible?

Failing that, the only alternatives are either to stump up for the cash
extensions, or to break your journey in order to touch in. Some places
may be easier to do this than others - it's worth remembering that at
least in the evenings and weekends, any non-Z1 fare is £1, so you could
touch in somewhere easy like Highbury & Islington (which has platform
validators next to the Victoria line platforms).

I think this is the real answer. You'll need to leave the train at any
station in Z4 (Mon-Fri 0700-1900) or any station in Z2-4 (all other
times), leave through the ticket barriers (if necessary) with your
Travelcard, and touch in with your Oyster card.

Elsewhere, you wouldn't have to necessarily leave the gateline, but
could touch your Oyster in on the side gate validator (probably getting
a strange look from the gate staff in the process).

I've done this a few times before. It seems that if the gate is open,
the validator works for entry or exit (as you might expect), but if
the gate is closed, it works for exit only (so if you're actually
'starting' the journey, you'll get an unresolved journey straight
away).

asdf wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:54:35 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

That's a bit of a dilemma. I think the initial advice was a bit off the
mark - I'm not surprised the staff at Cockfosters were reluctant about it.

Yep - sounds like dodgy advice to me.

The only truly satisfactory solution seems to me to exchange your paper
Z1-4 travelcard for an Oyster version from a Tube station at the
earliest opportunity.

Is that even possible?

What I meant was either to wait until the paper travelcard is up for
renewal and then replace it with an Oyster one, or turn in the paper
travelcard for a refund on the remaining validity (which I think is
allowed for annual tickets) and switch to Oyster.

(snip)

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

peter wrote:

I hold a paper travelcard for zones 1-4 (issued at a national rail
station), and occasionally need to travel to zone 5. Until last
December I always paid the difference in cash before the journey, but
the penal hike of cash fares meant that I have now bought a pay as you
go oyster. At the time of purchase (at Victoria TfL enquiry office) I
asked how I should use it for a such a zone extension - if I touched in
at the start of the journey I would presumably be charged for the Z1-4
section for which I already hold a travelcard. Yet once on the train
there is no way to validate the ticket on passing into Z5. The reply
was to tell staff at my destination station who would then deduct the
correct amount from the card.

Probably inaccurate advice. One side of the leaflet with my student oyster
tells me to break my journey to touch on the pad for some extensions
(although the other side says it's an automatic extension).

Well, yesterday I tried this for the first time, travelling to
Cockfosters. Staff there absolutely refused to deduct the correct
amount, saying I should put the whole journey on the oyster card. I
pointed out (politely) that I was following TfL advice, but that made
no difference.

Typical case of not singing from the same hymn sheet. Ideally one should
always get an official TfL leaflet carrying the same advice as given by
staff but in practice this doesn't work.

After about ten minutes arguing they let me through the
barrier (so I got a free ride), but this is clearly unsatisfactory.

How should I temporarily extend the range of a paper travelcard using
PAYG oyster?

The only thing I can think of is to break your journey where the
travelcard's validity runs out and touch in, or alternatively get Oystercard
next time. Are National Rail able to issue future season tickets on Oyster?

I hold a paper travelcard for zones 1-4 (issued at a national rail
station), and occasionally need to travel to zone 5. Until last
December I always paid the difference in cash before the journey, but
the penal hike of cash fares meant that I have now bought a pay as you
go oyster. At the time of purchase (at Victoria TfL enquiry office) I
asked how I should use it for a such a zone extension - if I touched in
at the start of the journey I would presumably be charged for the Z1-4
section for which I already hold a travelcard. Yet once on the train
there is no way to validate the ticket on passing into Z5. The reply
was to tell staff at my destination station who would then deduct the
correct amount from the card.

Well, yesterday I tried this for the first time, travelling to
Cockfosters. Staff there absolutely refused to deduct the correct
amount, saying I should put the whole journey on the oyster card. I
pointed out (politely) that I was following TfL advice, but that made
no difference. After about ten minutes arguing they let me through the
barrier (so I got a free ride), but this is clearly unsatisfactory.

How should I temporarily extend the range of a paper travelcard using
PAYG oyster?

You can't. You should buy your season ticket on Oyster if you want to use
Oyster PAYG for extensions. Paper tickets and Oyster PAYG extensions are
not intended to work together in the way you desire.

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:33:10 +0100, asdf
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:54:35 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

That's a bit of a dilemma. I think the initial advice was a bit off the
mark - I'm not surprised the staff at Cockfosters were reluctant about it.

Yep - sounds like dodgy advice to me.

It most certainly is.

Failing that, the only alternatives are either to stump up for the cash
extensions, or to break your journey in order to touch in. Some places
may be easier to do this than others - it's worth remembering that at
least in the evenings and weekends, any non-Z1 fare is £1, so you could
touch in somewhere easy like Highbury & Islington (which has platform
validators next to the Victoria line platforms).

I think this is the real answer. You'll need to leave the train at any
station in Z4 (Mon-Fri 0700-1900) or any station in Z2-4 (all other
times), leave through the ticket barriers (if necessary) with your
Travelcard, and touch in with your Oyster card.

The problem with this is that the OP will be charged for travel in Zone
4 as well as 5 unless the station is right on the boundary and thus in
both zones. While it may make no financial difference under the current
fares structure it could do at some future point. In addition he needs
to break his journey in both directions (assuming a return trip) is
being made which is a complete pain in the posterior.

Elsewhere, you wouldn't have to necessarily leave the gateline, but
could touch your Oyster in on the side gate validator (probably getting
a strange look from the gate staff in the process).

I've done this a few times before. It seems that if the gate is open,
the validator works for entry or exit (as you might expect), but if
the gate is closed, it works for exit only (so if you're actually
'starting' the journey, you'll get an unresolved journey straight
away).

You do need to be careful here. Interchange validators "apply some
intelligence" to determine if you are entering or exiting. As you say
the validator by a manual gate is (I believe) tied into the operational
status of the gate.

If the OP is able to swap from magnetic to Oyster ticketing then this is
by far the easiest option as the extension ticket process then becomes
seamless providing entry and exit validation is undertaken correctly.

I think I'm going to write the Oyster User Handbook to explain all this
stuff!

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
I think I'm going to write the Oyster User Handbook to explain all this
stuff!

Expect "Oyster for Dummies" in the shops any time now....... ;-)
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield
writes
I think I'm going to write the Oyster User Handbook to explain all
this stuff!

Expect "Oyster for Dummies" in the shops any time now....... ;-)

That's no fun. If there was a book explaining how Oyster works, what
would we all have to argue about?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London