----- Original Message -----
From: "OneHourLater"
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:38 PM
Subject: 'Weekend Tubes': decision on later start and finish times

Thank you for taking part in our consultation about whether the Tube should
run later at weekends. We have now made the decision about the scheme and
can feedback to you.

We received strong support for a later night Tube but concerns were raised
about the effects of a later start, particularly on Sunday mornings, as the
Tube already starts later than other days of the week.

As a result, we developed an alternative scheme:

* Running half an hour later on Friday and Saturday nights.
* Starting one hour later on Saturday mornings.

This left Sunday mornings unchanged, enabling two thirds of those originally
affected by a later weekend start to continue to use the Tube.

We have now decided to run the Tube half an hour later on Friday and
Saturday nights and start it one hour later on Saturday mornings from the
end of May 2007.

Friday and Saturday nights

On Friday and Saturday nights, last Tubes will leave the West End at around
01:00 instead of 00:30.

(A small group of stations that currently close earlier than others and will
continue to do so. These include stations on the Metropolitan Line north of
Harrow-on-the-Hill, Bakerloo Line north of Queen's Park, intermediate
stations on the Woodford-Hainault loop of the Central Line as well as
Heathrow T4, Kensington Olympia and Cannon Street. Please see our website
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/initiative...ter/faqs.asp#4 for
more details).

Some sections of track and stations are owned and controlled by Network Rail
and/or National Rail Train Operating Companies and we are discussing how to
apply the scheme to them.

Saturday and Sunday mornings

The Tube will start one hour later on Saturday mornings. First trains will
arrive at central London stations at around 07:00. Sundays will remain
unchanged, so first trains will still arrive at central London stations at
around 07:30.

Consultation issues and further information

For more information about the consultation results and our decision please
visit our website
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/initiative.../onehourlater/.

Please call 020 7126 3920 if you have any queries or would like this
information in any other language or format.

Yours sincerely

Mike Bartram
TfL Head of Consultation


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Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "OneHourLater"
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:38 PM
Subject: 'Weekend Tubes': decision on later start and finish times

Thank you for taking part in our consultation about whether the Tube should
run later at weekends. We have now made the decision about the scheme and
can feedback to you.

We received strong support for a later night Tube but concerns were raised
about the effects of a later start, particularly on Sunday mornings, as the
Tube already starts later than other days of the week.

As a result, we developed an alternative scheme:

* Running half an hour later on Friday and Saturday nights.
* Starting one hour later on Saturday mornings.

This left Sunday mornings unchanged, enabling two thirds of those originally
affected by a later weekend start to continue to use the Tube.

We have now decided to run the Tube half an hour later on Friday and
Saturday nights and start it one hour later on Saturday mornings from the
end of May 2007.

Friday and Saturday nights

On Friday and Saturday nights, last Tubes will leave the West End at around
01:00 instead of 00:30.

(A small group of stations that currently close earlier than others and will
continue to do so. These include stations on the Metropolitan Line north of
Harrow-on-the-Hill, Bakerloo Line north of Queen's Park, intermediate
stations on the Woodford-Hainault loop of the Central Line as well as
Heathrow T4, Kensington Olympia and Cannon Street. Please see our website
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/initiative...ter/faqs.asp#4 for
more details).

Some sections of track and stations are owned and controlled by Network Rail
and/or National Rail Train Operating Companies and we are discussing how to
apply the scheme to them.

Saturday and Sunday mornings

The Tube will start one hour later on Saturday mornings. First trains will
arrive at central London stations at around 07:00. Sundays will remain
unchanged, so first trains will still arrive at central London stations at
around 07:30.

Consultation issues and further information

For more information about the consultation results and our decision please
visit our website
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/initiative.../onehourlater/.

Please call 020 7126 3920 if you have any queries or would like this
information in any other language or format.

Yours sincerely

Mike Bartram
TfL Head of Consultation



I replied to the consultation as well, on the lines that while larger
numbers of people might answer that they'd like to be able to get home
more easily after nights out, their journeys weren't as important (and
didn't need to be as quick) as people who work on Saturday mornings or
who have trains or planes to catch.

But in the end it looks like they went with making things slightly more
convenient for a larger number and threatening livelihoods and
appointments of a smaller number.

Night buses are good enough now that non-urgent getting home after
clubbing is not really a problem for most places that the Underground
goes to, and many more.

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:43:35 -0700, MIG wrote:


I replied to the consultation as well, on the lines that while larger
numbers of people might answer that they'd like to be able to get home
more easily after nights out, their journeys weren't as important (and
didn't need to be as quick) as people who work on Saturday mornings or who
have trains or planes to catch.

You should only answer consultations based on your own circumstances and
not speak on behalf of others, if they are concerned enough to respond
then they can. Your opinion of the importance of a journey is not based on
any stats or research and will be just based on you own experiences. Why
are workers in the hospitality industry deemed less important than other
worker anyway?

But in the end it looks like they went with making things slightly more
convenient for a larger number and threatening livelihoods and
appointments of a smaller number.

You could also argue that those that livelihoods are threatened are those
working for industries that open early for a minor convenience of others.
People that make appointments/book travel when they cannot get there on
time are just foolish.


Night buses are good enough now that non-urgent getting home after
clubbing is not really a problem for most places that the Underground
goes to, and many more.

This shows why you should not answer on behalf of others as you clearly
don't know the facts. Clubbers would loose out due to the later start on
Sunday and will not benefit from a slightly travel closure, people don't
leave clubs at 1am.

steve wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:43:35 -0700, MIG wrote:


I replied to the consultation as well, on the lines that while larger
numbers of people might answer that they'd like to be able to get home
more easily after nights out, their journeys weren't as important (and
didn't need to be as quick) as people who work on Saturday mornings or who
have trains or planes to catch.

You should only answer consultations based on your own circumstances and
not speak on behalf of others, if they are concerned enough to respond
then they can.


Which is exactly what I did. I said that I would probably use late
Friday and Saturday services more often than early Saturday and Sunday
services, but that when I do use the latter it is always for a much
more important journey.

But in any comments section I would have said that if the results are
based on how many people said they would use the late services, pure
numbers don't necessarily reflect the relative importance.

This seems to be one of those "choice" situations. All TV should be
quizes and soap operas because more people watch them etc.

Your opinion of the importance of a journey is not based on
any stats or research and will be just based on you own experiences. Why
are workers in the hospitality industry deemed less important than other
worker anyway?

But in the end it looks like they went with making things slightly more
convenient for a larger number and threatening livelihoods and
appointments of a smaller number.

You could also argue that those that livelihoods are threatened are those
working for industries that open early for a minor convenience of others.
People that make appointments/book travel when they cannot get there on
time are just foolish.


Are they foolish because the services are being withdrawn?




Night buses are good enough now that non-urgent getting home after
clubbing is not really a problem for most places that the Underground
goes to, and many more.

This shows why you should not answer on behalf of others as you clearly
don't know the facts. Clubbers would loose out due to the later start on
Sunday and will not benefit from a slightly travel closure, people don't
leave clubs at 1am.


I didn't say that clubbers would use the Underground at 1 am (except
maybe on the way to the club). I was saying that there is a good
all-night service that allows clubbers to get home, which demonstrates
that there is a good all-night service.

steve wrote in
news
SNIP
This shows why you should not answer on behalf of others as you
clearly don't know the facts. Clubbers would loose out due to the
later start on Sunday and will not benefit from a slightly travel
closure, people don't leave clubs at 1am.


You're right. It's nothing to do with clubs, which tend to close at 6 in
the morning (some clubs close around 3 or 4 but these tend to be on the
outskirts of London).

So it'll be a major PITA for clubbers, which is annoying as the last thing
you want to do on a Sunday morning is wait for the tubes to open. So we'll
end up getting ripped off or raped by very dodgy minicabs, or driving under
the influence of drugs and drink.

This whole public consultation would have been probably rejected by
clubbers.

But for drinkers, it's good. People do now leave pubs around that time, so
those not into clubbing will benefit.

What I don't understand though is why they've stitched us up by half an
hour. Add half an hour at night, but a whole bleedin' hour in the morning?
Are they having a laugh?

Why don't they instead lose half an hour's maintenance work in the morning,
and simply employ more staff to get the jobs done quicker with the revenue
created from all those £3 single journeys created as people take the tube
home instead of a cab! :-))

TRISTÁN

In message . 145,
Tristán White writes

What I don't understand though is why they've stitched us up by half an
hour. Add half an hour at night, but a whole bleedin' hour in the
morning? Are they having a laugh?

Why don't they instead lose half an hour's maintenance work in the
morning, and simply employ more staff to get the jobs done quicker with
the revenue created from all those £3 single journeys created as people
take the tube home instead of a cab! :-))

They've added 30 mins to Friday and Saturday night services and then
start up Saturday services 1 hour later. They haven't touched Sunday
services which will still start at the same (later) time. Therefore 1
hour extra service = 1 hour later start, that way, engineering hours
remain the same albeit moved about slightly.

The problem with 'losing' engineering time as you suggest is that there
are only so many people you can fit into an area the size of a tube
tunnel to do any meaningful work. Anyway, most of the time is spent
with safety procedures starting and ending work - in reality only about
2 hours work gets done in any night for the (roughly) 3.5 hour
closedown.

I have lived in London for 10 years now - if I want to go out for the
night, I get the night bus home and have never used a cab. It's not a
problem and never has been, so why all the clamour to have a train
service running anyway?
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Mon, 1 May 2006 12:00:29 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote:

I have lived in London for 10 years now - if I want to go out for the
night, I get the night bus home and have never used a cab. It's not a
problem and never has been, so why all the clamour to have a train
service running anyway?

The Mayor put it in his manifesto.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2006 12:00:29 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote:

I have lived in London for 10 years now - if I want to go out for the
night, I get the night bus home and have never used a cab. It's not a
problem and never has been, so why all the clamour to have a train
service running anyway?

The Mayor put it in his manifesto.



I'm sure the manifesto mentioned it running later. Didn't Steve Norris
promise to have it running all night (maybe in 2000)?

But if he had won and then said "by the way, in order to have it
running all night it won't run in the day any more", people might have
felt a bit cheated.

Tim Roll-Pickering ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

(A small group of stations that currently close earlier than others
and will continue to do so. These include stations on the Metropolitan
Line north of Harrow-on-the-Hill, Bakerloo Line north of Queen's Park,
intermediate stations on the Woodford-Hainault loop of the Central
Line as well as Heathrow T4, Kensington Olympia and Cannon Street.

So those of us who live on the tube network with no alternative transport
home except a hooky minicab or a hideously expensive black cab (IF we can
persuade one) are still doing the Cinderella run, then?

On 1 May 2006 12:58:49 -0700, "MIG" wrote:


Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2006 12:00:29 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote:

I have lived in London for 10 years now - if I want to go out for the
night, I get the night bus home and have never used a cab. It's not a
problem and never has been, so why all the clamour to have a train
service running anyway?

The Mayor put it in his manifesto.

I'm sure the manifesto mentioned it running later. Didn't Steve Norris
promise to have it running all night (maybe in 2000)?

Steve Norris may have promised it but he could not have delivered it.
I'm afraid I really struggle to see the point in the tube running later
at weekends when, as others have said, there is a generally very good
night bus network. There are some gaps but it would take little effort
and a damn sight less expense to create those extra night buses than
what later tubes will cost. Don't be surprised if the word "strike"
appears between now and whenever it is implemented.

But if he had won and then said "by the way, in order to have it
running all night it won't run in the day any more", people might have
felt a bit cheated.

Indeed but that is not what is happening here. There is some loss of
service which I still think is daft but thankfully not the original
proposal for Sunday mornings. Having flown into Heathrow in the early
morning and been faced with the current Sunday service I could not
imagine how anyone could contemplate starting it even later.

I don't quite understand how you service a 24 hour city by reducing the
tube service in the early part of that 24 hour period when lots of
people are out and about to get the engine of commerce started that
drives so much related economic activity.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!