Tim Roll-Pickering wrote in
:

Paul Terry wrote:

Just why is this? The benefits of extensions for unplanned journeys
apply just as much to one day travelcards as to longer season
tickets so why can't
people get the card on Oyster?

Because it is not (yet) accepted by National Rail in most of the
London area.

But they have no problem accepting my longer season ticket so why not
a one day season ticket?

Forgive a naive question, but what is the advantage of Oyster over paper
tickets - either specific single/return ones or a one-day travelcard? Are
Oyster fares cheaper than paper-ticket fares for the same journey (assuming
it's not by NR!) or is the main advantage the convenience of not having to
queue up at a counter or ticket machine before you can travel?

In message , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

Because it is not (yet) accepted by National Rail in most of the London
area.

But they have no problem accepting my longer season ticket so why not a one
day season ticket?

I've never seen a good reason why a (pre-purchased) ODTC on Oyster
shouldn't be acceptable to the TOCs (pre-pay is a more complicated
issue, of course). Still, it *is* going to happen, despite the TOCs
dragging their heels at every opportunity.

--
Paul Terry

In ,
Martin Underwood typed:

Forgive a naive question,

You're forgiven.


... but what is the advantage of Oyster over
paper tickets - either specific single/return ones or a one-day
travelcard?
Are Oyster fares cheaper than paper-ticket fares for the
same journey (assuming it's not by NR!)

Oyster singles are always cheaper than paper singles (there isn't such a
thing as return ticket on LT-only journeys). Oyster daily capping will
result in a total fare of at least 50p less than the equivalent one-day
travelcard (ignoring the fact that you can't use Oyster on most NR
trains). Bus journeys are cheaper with Oyster; Oyster capping on bus
journeys will result in a total fare of 50p less than a one-day bus
pass.


... or is the main advantage the
convenience of not having to queue up at a counter or ticket machine
before you can travel?

Saving money - or saving time - you can decide which is the main
advantage for yourself.






--
Bob

Paul Terry wrote:

I've never seen a good reason why a (pre-purchased) ODTC on Oyster
shouldn't be acceptable to the TOCs (pre-pay is a more complicated
issue, of course).

AIUI, it seems to be because for some reason you can't load one day
travelcards onto Oyster cards, rather than that the TOCs won't accept
one day travelcards on Oyster.

Patrick

In message , Martin
Underwood writes

Forgive a naive question, but what is the advantage of Oyster over paper
tickets - either specific single/return ones or a one-day travelcard? Are
Oyster fares cheaper than paper-ticket fares for the same journey (assuming
it's not by NR!)

Yes - considerably cheaper: an off-peak bus journey is 80p with Oyster,
£1.50 with a paper ticket; a zone 1 tube single is £1.50 with Oyster or
£3 without.

Oyster fare-capping means that one day's use should be 50p or so below
the equivalent one-day travelcard price - so, a much smaller saving
there, and no saving at all if the travel includes a national rail
journey since that will normally have to be paid for as an additional
item.

or is the main advantage the convenience of not having to
queue up at a counter or ticket machine before you can travel?

That is another advantage. The current non-acceptance by most of
National Rail in London for prepay/occasional travel is the biggest
disadvantage for many.

--
Paul Terry

Bob Wood wrote:

Oyster singles are always cheaper than paper singles (there isn't such a
thing as return ticket on LT-only journeys).

Except for certain DLR journeys.
--
Michael Hoffman

In ,
Martin Underwood typed:

Forgive an equally naive supplementary: what is "capping" in this
context?

Individual fares are deducted from the balance until the daily 'capping'
level is reached. After that no more is deducted.

To take the simplest example, the off-peak Oyster bus fare is 80p. Make
one bus journey and 80p is deducted from your balance. Make another bus
journey and another 80p is deducted. Make a third bus journey and
another 80p is deducted, making £2.40 for the three journeys. Now comes
the clever bit - the daily cap for bus journeys is set at £3 - so,
you make a fourth journey and 60p is deducted. Nothing more would be
deducted for any further bus journeys on the same day.



--
Bob

In ,
Michael Hoffman typed:

Bob Wood wrote:

Oyster singles are always cheaper than paper singles (there isn't
such a thing as return ticket on LT-only journeys).

Except for certain DLR journeys.


Return tickets for certain DLR journeys? I wasn't aware of this and
can't find them in the Fares booklet
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...fares-2006.pdf

Please tell me more.




--
Bob

Bob Wood wrote in
:

In ,
Martin Underwood typed:

Forgive an equally naive supplementary: what is "capping" in this
context?

Individual fares are deducted from the balance until the daily
'capping' level is reached. After that no more is deducted.

To take the simplest example, the off-peak Oyster bus fare is 80p. Make
one bus journey and 80p is deducted from your balance. Make
another bus journey and another 80p is deducted. Make a third bus
journey and another 80p is deducted, making £2.40 for the three
journeys. Now comes the clever bit - the daily cap for bus
journeys is set at £3 - so, you make a fourth journey and 60p is
deducted. Nothing more would be deducted for any further bus
journeys on the same day.

Hey, that's really impressive. So it works a bit like a one-day travelcard
in the sense that you get unlimited travel for a fixed price (£3 for buses)
with the additional benefit that if you use it less than this amount on a
certain day, you don't even pay the full £3.

I can see why they are beneficial to customers, but what's the incentive for
the train/bus operators - are the admin costs lower?

If/when they ever include NR trains as well as buses and underground, and
assuming the same geographical coverage as for the paper one-day travelcard,
it might be worth considering. However I bet if you live outside London
there won't be a way of buying a paper return ticket to the nearest boundary
station and then an "Oyster travelcard" - unless your train happens to stop
at that boundary station.

"Bob Wood" wrote in news:zaJ5g.95$2k4.78@newsfe7-
win.ntli.net:

In ,
Martin Underwood typed:

Forgive an equally naive supplementary: what is "capping" in this
context?

Individual fares are deducted from the balance until the daily 'capping'
level is reached. After that no more is deducted.

To take the simplest example, the off-peak Oyster bus fare is 80p. Make
one bus journey and 80p is deducted from your balance. Make another bus
journey and another 80p is deducted. Make a third bus journey and
another 80p is deducted, making £2.40 for the three journeys. Now comes
the clever bit - the daily cap for bus journeys is set at £3 - so,
you make a fourth journey and 60p is deducted. Nothing more would be
deducted for any further bus journeys on the same day.


If you took four bus journeys and then a single zone 3 tube journey, in
that order, would you be charged...

£3 (cap for bus pass) plus £1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3)
totallying £4

or

£3.20 (cap removed when Oyster realises a tube journey is then taken) plus
£1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3) ???


If it's the above, then that's cool.

If it's the second option, then perhaps it's a good idea to have two PAYG
cards - one for buses, and one for tubes when bus caps have been reached!