In message .com,
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

I've never seen a good reason why a (pre-purchased) ODTC on Oyster
shouldn't be acceptable to the TOCs (pre-pay is a more complicated
issue, of course).

AIUI, it seems to be because for some reason you can't load one day
travelcards onto Oyster cards, rather than that the TOCs won't accept
one day travelcards on Oyster.

I think the only reason why you can't load a ODTC onto Oyster is because
it would then be expected to work as a ODTC - i.e. be usable on National
Rail.

I don't think there is any technical reason why it couldn't be done -
Ask Oyster implies that it is only a matter of time: "at present only 7
Day and longer period Travelcards are available on Oyster".

--
Paul Terry

"Martin Underwood" typed

Forgive an equally naive supplementary: what is "capping" in this context?

Limiting the amount that will be deducted from Oyster PrePay balance for
one day's use.

If the traveller only uses buses, the amount is 'capped' at £3, the cost
of a One Day Bus Pass is normally £3.50.

The amount capped is 50p below the equivalent paper ticket.

If the traveller uses buses and the Tube, the amount capped is also 50p
below the equivalent Travelcard. (eg a Zone 1-4 paper Travelcard is
£5.40, but only £4.90 will be deducted from Oyster PrePay balance for
all travel within these Zones in a day.)

This is fine until the traveller wishes to use National Railways, where
Oyster PrePay is usually not accepted, but paper Travelcard are...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In . 109.145,
Tristán White typed:

If you took four bus journeys and then a single zone 3 tube journey,
in that order, would you be charged...

£3 (cap for bus pass) plus £1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3)
totallying £4

or

£3.20 (cap removed when Oyster realises a tube journey is then taken)
plus £1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3) ???


If it's the above, then that's cool.

If it's the second option, then perhaps it's a good idea to have two
PAYG cards - one for buses, and one for tubes when bus caps have been
reached!

It would be the first of those two options. The 'bus cap' would remain
and a further £1 would be deducted for the Z3 tube journey.

But to go on from that point, if you were then to make another Z3 tube
journey, the bus cap would be replaced by the Z1-4 off-peak cap at £4.90
(assuming all journeys have been off-peak) - so only 90p would be
deducted from the balance. You would then be able to make bus journeys
and tube journeys within Z1-3 without further deduction. NB you would
still have to Touch In and Touch Out - but nothing more would be
deducted.

The cap will always be progressed to the appropriate one as further
journeys are made.


--
Bob

"Tristán White" wrote in message
. 109.145...
"Bob Wood" wrote in
news:zaJ5g.95$2k4.78@newsfe7-
win.ntli.net:

In ,
Martin Underwood typed:

Forgive an equally naive supplementary: what is "capping" in this
context?

Individual fares are deducted from the balance until the daily 'capping'
level is reached. After that no more is deducted.

To take the simplest example, the off-peak Oyster bus fare is 80p. Make
one bus journey and 80p is deducted from your balance. Make another bus
journey and another 80p is deducted. Make a third bus journey and
another 80p is deducted, making £2.40 for the three journeys. Now comes
the clever bit - the daily cap for bus journeys is set at £3 - so,
you make a fourth journey and 60p is deducted. Nothing more would be
deducted for any further bus journeys on the same day.


If you took four bus journeys and then a single zone 3 tube journey, in
that order, would you be charged...

£3 (cap for bus pass) plus £1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3)
totallying £4

or

£3.20 (cap removed when Oyster realises a tube journey is then taken)
plus
£1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3) ???


If it's the above, then that's cool.

If it's the second option, then perhaps it's a good idea to have two PAYG
cards - one for buses, and one for tubes when bus caps have been reached!

None of the above. You would be charged 80p for the tube journey to bring
you up to £3.80 (the Zone 2-6 travelcard cap) as this would be the cheapest
available ticket covering all of your journeys.

You would be disadvantaged if you used more than one card as you describe.

If you took four bus journeys and then a single zone 3 tube journey,
in that order, would you be charged...

£3 (cap for bus pass) plus £1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3)
totallying £4

or

£3.20 (cap removed when Oyster realises a tube journey is then taken)
plus £1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3) ???


If it's the above, then that's cool.

If it's the second option, then perhaps it's a good idea to have two
PAYG cards - one for buses, and one for tubes when bus caps have been
reached!

It would be the first of those two options. The 'bus cap' would remain
and a further £1 would be deducted for the Z3 tube journey.

But to go on from that point, if you were then to make another Z3 tube
journey, the bus cap would be replaced by the Z1-4 off-peak cap at £4.90
(assuming all journeys have been off-peak) - so only 90p would be
deducted from the balance. You would then be able to make bus journeys
and tube journeys within Z1-3 without further deduction. NB you would
still have to Touch In and Touch Out - but nothing more would be
deducted.

The cap will always be progressed to the appropriate one as further
journeys are made.

Why are you getting charged for Zones 1-4 when all you have used is the
tube in Zone 3 and the buses? A Zone 2-6 cap of £3.80 will apply in this
case.

Bob Wood wrote:
In ,
Michael Hoffman typed:


Bob Wood wrote:


Oyster singles are always cheaper than paper singles (there isn't
such a thing as return ticket on LT-only journeys).


Except for certain DLR journeys.

Return tickets for certain DLR journeys? I wasn't aware of this and
can't find them in the Fares booklet
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...fares-2006.pdf

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant that Oyster singles are no cheaper for DLR
journeys in zones 2-3 since there is a reduced price of £1.50 for a
paper ticket in this situation, as was discussed here earlier this week.
However it appears that the Oyster price would have been £1 so even that
is not true. Sorry.
--
Michael Hoffman

In ,
Bob Wood typed:

In . 109.145,
Tristán White typed:

If you took four bus journeys and then a single zone 3 tube journey,
in that order, would you be charged...

£3 (cap for bus pass) plus £1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3)
totallying £4

or

£3.20 (cap removed when Oyster realises a tube journey is then taken)
plus £1 (single Oyster tube journey in zone 3) ???


If it's the above, then that's cool.

If it's the second option, then perhaps it's a good idea to have two
PAYG cards - one for buses, and one for tubes when bus caps have been
reached!

It would be the first of those two options. The 'bus cap' would
remain and a further £1 would be deducted for the Z3 tube journey.


Whoooops!!! No, it wouldn't. I forgot about the Z2-6 cap at £3.80.
So a further 80p would be deducted for the Z3 tube journey and further
journeys could be made without deduction on buses and on tubes in Z2-6.

The capping will always move on to the most appropriate level.

NB the bus journeys may have been in Z1 but that doesn't matter - a
Z2-6 cap (or any cap) covers bus journeys in any and all zones.


--
Bob

In ,
TKD typed:

Why are you getting charged for Zones 1-4 when all you have used is
the tube in Zone 3 and the buses? A Zone 2-6 cap of £3.80 will apply
in this case.

Indeed. I belatedly realised my error. I tend to forget the Z2-6 cap
in exactly the same way as I tend to forget about the existence of a
Z2-6 travelcard.




--
Bob

Paul Terry wrote:
In message .com,
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

I've never seen a good reason why a (pre-purchased) ODTC on Oyster
shouldn't be acceptable to the TOCs (pre-pay is a more complicated
issue, of course).

AIUI, it seems to be because for some reason you can't load one day
travelcards onto Oyster cards, rather than that the TOCs won't accept
one day travelcards on Oyster.

I think the only reason why you can't load a ODTC onto Oyster is because
it would then be expected to work as a ODTC - i.e. be usable on National
Rail.

I don't think there is any technical reason why it couldn't be done -
Ask Oyster implies that it is only a matter of time: "at present only 7
Day and longer period Travelcards are available on Oyster".


There is no technical reason why ODTCs couldn't be loaded onto Oysters.
However, introducing yet another layer of complication into Oyster might
not be a good idea, and it might delay the rollout of PAYG to the TOCs
(if there is no urgent perceived need for PAYG on NR).

The problem is that ODTC is really a different product to PAYG capping,
so if both were possible on Oyster, users would get even more confused
than they already are.

Until PAYG is rolled out to the TOCs, I really think that the
information about Oyster should be improved somehow.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Dave Arquati
writes

There is no technical reason why ODTCs couldn't be loaded onto Oysters.
However, introducing yet another layer of complication into Oyster
might not be a good idea,

How is it more complicated than using a 7-day travelcard on Oyster,
which is already possible?

and it might delay the rollout of PAYG to the TOCs (if there is no
urgent perceived need for PAYG on NR).

I think that the dates for implementation of PAYG are now out of the
hands of the TOCs - would accepting ODTCs involve anything more than
changing information for staff and customers?

The problem is that ODTC is really a different product to PAYG capping,
so if both were possible on Oyster, users would get even more confused
than they already are.

I agree with the former, but much of the latter is due to the current
situation in which only certain types of travelcard are acceptable on
Oyster.

Until PAYG is rolled out to the TOCs, I really think that the
information about Oyster should be improved somehow.

Absolutely

--
Paul Terry